"Too real to be staged" and the likes ...

[Sternenlied]

After reading the mentioned thread and finding my PM-box flooded with messages asking for the links and I finally decided to delete the thread completely.
A few things I wanted to let you know however:
I am really glad to see at least a few members support my decisions and I was disgusted by the large number of people who so desperately wanted to see the video!
Don't even start arguing how stupid someone would be to post a real rape video on an internet board (enough people are that stupid) or this video might have been one hell of a fake. If it was - so what? There are hundreds of rape fantasy videos availabe on the board and I think we all can live without one of them. If it was real ... well, I guess you can all imagine what I think of people who want to see it anyway (or especially because it is).
My first decision to delete the links only was driven by the hope people might see HOW we think about a subject like this and WHY we do so but obviously I was misguided. Because I didn't know for sure we were dealing with a real rape filmed here I didn't warn the posting member.
So for future reference: I will continue to delete any threads containing such links. Furthermore I will give a warning to the posting members as well as anyone else asking for such links! If you think it might be real rape, don't post it, it's as simple as that!
The forum rules are quite clear on real rape, no discussion required!

I saw a cartoon one time that depicted a man and woman standing on a street corner. There's a sign on the corner that says "No machete juggling." The man says to the woman, "Suddenly I have an urge to juggle machetes."

I think that illustrates why at least some people wanted to see this video. Yes, I'm sure some wanted to see it because they wanted to see something "real." But I think for others, it was a combination of curiosity and, people just don't like being told what to do. Nobody likes someone else deciding for them what they can and can't see, read, etc.

It's somewhat analogous to how when a government tries to ban a particular book, everyone wants to read it, just to see what it is their government doesn't want them to read.

Just to be clear, I'm not taking issue with your deleting the video. But, to tell people, there was something here, but you can't see it, is inevitably going to make some people want to see it.

I'll admit that I would have like to have had the opportunity to see it myself. Not because I want to see "real" rape, but because I wanted to see if I thought it was in fact real.

In my time on forums such as this one, I've seen a quite a few videos that either purported to be real or that some panicky person thought was real. Most of the time, it's turned out to be just a well done porno.

Again, I'm not taking issue with what you did, I'm just saying there are reasons for someone to want to see the video for themselves, besides them being some sick fuck who wants to see real rape.

[ego]

Tbh, i would like to see it also. Not only the curiosity, but also the fact i know it exists.
I've watched some clips with lions attacking people, or scenes of war with dead/amputated people and i felt no guilt, i find no reason to feel guilt now.

I support however the deletion of these threads/links from RB and i understand that there are members who are more sensitive than me. After all, we know why most people come here and the idea that someone masturbates over a real clip is rather disgusting.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by ego

After all, we know why most people come here and the idea that someone masturbates over a real clip is rather disgusting.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

There are hundreds of rape fantasy videos availabe on the board and I think we all can live without one of them

Nothing else needs to be said.

[MeltyMan]

Good call on removing it.


I will admit im curious about the vid but if its real then i dont want to c it and im glad it has gone

[Ivor]

Strangely this thread (or this plus the previous one) has prompted me to register rather than just view! I think the Mods have done exactly the right thing in this case. I enjoy the fantasy side of this forum but really do not want to be involved in anything associated with the real thing.

I appreciate that there may be some natural urge to see such things, similar to when you drive past an accident on a motorway and have to look - but accidents are just that, real rape is not the same and the Mods on this forum do a good job making sure it sits in the right place. I'm impressed by the approach.

[Gio]

Excellent decision. I agree completely.

[Sierra]

Believe me....I completely understand why people want to see the clip. Clips of train wrecks and beheadings and other mayhem get literally millions of hits. The mere fact that people want to see it doesn't bother me or surprise me at all. This is not the first time I've seen this clip - I'm sure that talented Googlers can find it.

What I do find disturbing is the fact that it was made at all.

I also want to remind you that several of your friends and colleagues on this board (myself included, although I'm a newbie), have been victims of real rape. Anyone who has gone through an actual violent rape would not be able to watch that clip without experiencing additional trauma to a greater or lesser degree.

For the record and as I said in the original string, I wholeheartedly support the decision to delete the link. Putting the disturbing nature of the clip aside, the very LAST thing this board needs is to draw the attention of law enforcement and/or citizens who favor censorship. Neither group is liable to understand that we deal in fantasy and rolePLAY here.

[zazie]

Good call. I can understand why you tried the approach with the thread, even if it didn't work out. And I fully support taking it down; there's a world of difference between a game of pretend, and having someone else get genuinely harmed for our entertainment.

[lilwing]

You have banned one thread? What about the hundreds of other videos posted on this website? Maybe they can be classified as 'fake' but that does not mean that the people taken part in such videos are not exploited. Just because something is classed as 'legal' doesn't mean it is morally correct, I believe that in one way or another the majority of 'models' taking part in this genre of pornography are forced. They have been forced into a industry which thrives on the exploitation of disadvantaged women. Has it not struck anyone that the majority of 'fake' rape videos are from Eastern Europe or Russian? I have done exstensive charity work in these areas and it is a fact that women are forced into prositution and pornography, selling their bodies for less than £3 an hour. Fantasy rape videos by extention are nothing more than exploitation and the threads just as worthy to be taken down. If these fantast rape videos did not have an audience then women would not be exploited in such a degrading way, no matter how you justify it this type of pornography is extremely damaging.

If people see an audience for fake rape porn, then more and more women will be forced into scenarios to which they will not enjoy nor agree with. Fantasy rape IS in actual fact real because these women are forced and exploited.

Thoughts?

[Ivor]

Originally Posted by lilwing

You have banned one thread? What about the hundreds of other videos posted on this website? Maybe they can be classified as 'fake' but that does not mean that the people taken part in such videos are not exploited. Just because something is classed as 'legal' doesn't mean it is morally correct, I believe that in one way or another the majority of 'models' taking part in this genre of pornography are forced. They have been forced into a industry which thrives on the exploitation of disadvantaged women. Has it not struck anyone that the majority of 'fake' rape videos are from Eastern Europe or Russian? I have done exstensive charity work in these areas and it is a fact that women are forced into prositution and pornography, selling their bodies for less than £3 an hour. Fantasy rape videos by extention are nothing more than exploitation and the threads just as worthy to be taken down. If these fantast rape videos did not have an audience then women would not be exploited in such a degrading way, no matter how you justify it this type of pornography is extremely damaging.

If people see an audience for fake rape porn, then more and more women will be forced into scenarios to which they will not enjoy nor agree with. Fantasy rape IS in actual fact real because these women are forced and exploited.

Thoughts?

I get what you say but if we go down that route no bugger'd be allowed to do anything anymore. You should take this up with the crime lords though.

[Sternenlied]

You have banned one thread? What about the hundreds of other videos posted on this website? Maybe they can be classified as 'fake' but that does not mean that the people taken part in such videos are not exploited. Just because something is classed as 'legal' doesn't mean it is morally correct, I believe that in one way or another the majority of 'models' taking part in this genre of pornography are forced. They have been forced into a industry which thrives on the exploitation of disadvantaged women. Has it not struck anyone that the majority of 'fake' rape videos are from Eastern Europe or Russian? I have done exstensive charity work in these areas and it is a fact that women are forced into prositution and pornography, selling their bodies for less than £3 an hour. Fantasy rape videos by extention are nothing more than exploitation and the threads just as worthy to be taken down. If these fantast rape videos did not have an audience then women would not be exploited in such a degrading way, no matter how you justify it this type of pornography is extremely damaging.

If people see an audience for fake rape porn, then more and more women will be forced into scenarios to which they will not enjoy nor agree with. Fantasy rape IS in actual fact real because these women are forced and exploited.

Thoughts?

Well, people are forced to do many things for numerous reasons ...
Unfortunately exploitation of people in need and the poor is a sad fact on this planet and of course in Western society as well.
I can totally understand someone looking for a line to draw - if only for themselves. But where you do is up to yourself. You can decide not to watch those videos because the actors and actresses might be exploited, you can choose not to buy certain products because the factory workers in that country might be exploited, you can stop using products from drug-exporting countries, you can outlaw prostitution because the women might be exploited, you can refuse to use materials tested on animals, you can ... I guess you catch my meaning.
The porn industry is one of exploitation (not always but still) and you're under no obligation to watch any of those videos but - in my opinion - raping someone is a different pair of shoes. Furthermore I don't want to demonise (and thus possibly censor or ban) a whole industry because not everything is "right" about it and everyone who participates. I have no meanings of checking up on porn producers (of any kind, especially Eastern European ones) so I can't tell which ones are exploitative and which ones are not. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. When it comes to real rape however there is no such thing.
"Morally correct" however is the thinest line possible to walk. Just how many people would consider this forum to be immoral, those fantasies, us people? I'm sorry, we can only decide what is morally correct for ourselves individually and we can possibly agree on some things as a community but we cannot make that decision for others.

[ego]

Originally Posted by lilwing

Maybe they can be classified as 'fake' but that does not mean that the people taken part in such videos are not exploited. Just because something is classed as 'legal' doesn't mean it is morally correct, I believe that in one way or another the majority of 'models' taking part in this genre of pornography are forced. They have been forced into a industry which thrives on the exploitation of disadvantaged women.

Agreed!
But i feel i am an observer, do i feed the "monster" ?

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by lilwing

If these fantast rape videos did not have an audience then women would not be exploited in such a degrading way

I remember watching a video last year of an Asian woman crushing a tiny animal to death with her stiletto. Now I enjoy many aspects of a high heel fetish, including crushing and trampling, but this is something that definitely can be done without. No one should demand it because it's truly horrible and there are endless types of videos that can be made instead.

Rape fantasy has a much bigger following, and although it can have many different forms it is esentially the straight forward fetish most people will want. You can't just ask someone to stop fantasizing about something they cannot ignore. No one is going to "settle" for some harmless bondage to clear their conscience.

Also, to avoid only Eastern European videos would be ridiculous. That's like vegetarians who eat chicken and fish.

[RapeU]

It was a good idea to remove it. Watching fake stuff on the internet is good, but once something is passed off as real, whether or not it is, deserves to be taken seriously and removed.

[Tanya]

Originally Posted by Debaser

Shes not much to look at either!

Um so??? I'd say that makes it MORE of a chance its real because youd think people filming fake stuff would use more attractive people

[Sternenlied]

I was wondering about that one myself.
So an (in your opinion) ugly or unattractive woman can't be raped? It lessens the chance? This isn't the movies where the rape victims are played by hot actresses to get the attention of male viewers ...

[kane66]

Real Rape is a CRIME period,if someone had a Video of you being Raped in a Horrible Violent Manner.you would feel Different about the Whole World seeing it in Video when you are the Person being Raped it is a Whole Different Experience People.Movies and Fantasy are one Thing real Life is Different Real Rape will get you 50 Years in Prison where you might get Raped.You did the Right thing in Deleting the Link.

[Night.Bane]

The noob chimes in:

In all the vids I've downloaded and/or seen (hundreds, to be sure) I've seen only two that made me think, "That might be real." One I believe was the subject of the deleted thread in question--middle eastern setting, etc. I happen to think that one was staged, for whatever that's worth. The other vid I'm pretty sure was real, it hit on a P2P download and I deleted it from my archive. It's clear from the premise of the site that the thread needed to be deleted. Kudos to that, for both moral and legal reasons.

I'm always amazed at how 'normal' most rape/force fetishists are; I have no interest in associating with guys who are 'real rapists.' That's not a fetish--that's misogyny. Or worse.

That said, there is a very weird juxtaposition of accepting 'force fantasies' and some of the video offerings (Slap Happy, for instance, some of those girls really take it on the chin) floating around out there on the 'net while climbing up high and taking a principled view about what constitutes 'real rape.' More than once, I've seen girls on some of those videos who I'm sure were being forced to perform against their will. The dude's saying, "Fifteen seconds more," and in the meantime he's just going to town, pressing, pressing, and pressing some more, seeing how far he can push her before she says no. Is it rape? That's actually the wrong question. The correct question: is it legal? These girls have a contract and, presumably, a safe word or some other 'out' they can use while performing. I don't want to get too specific, but there's an oral abuse video where the girl has a tiny stream of tears that starts about halfway through and it is more than clear that she is decidedly unhappy about what's happening. To me, that's almost rape--except that it's legal. Brandon Iron, the guy behind the Slap Happy videos, has said that some of the performers he got were very unhappy about the end result--but they all cashed their checks. It's legal, they provided ID, and they could (presumably) stop performing at any time. But if you know they need the money, and you can 'read them' and tell that they'll put up with whatever you do and not complain over much (it's shocking how many of the girls in porn have a past history of child sexual abuse, making them more susceptible to this), and you push push push push push, you get a result that really isn't all that different from rape--except that it's legal, it comports with 18 U.S.C. Section 2257, so nobody can go after you. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed some of those offerings immensely, I just find it slightly amusing that somehow it's ok to partake and enjoy a particularly brutal video where the subjects are clearly being exploited and are extremely uncomfortable with what they're doing so long as it meets the demands of 18 U.S.C. Section 2257, while drawing a distinction between other videos of foreign origin that may or may not be 'real,' where the girl is not being subject to anything close to the same kind of treatment, but the rigors of 18 U.S.C. Section 2257 are not met.

I'm not too conflicted about enjoying the one while rejecting the other, by the way. I've said before, the difference between a swimsuit model, a Playboy model, a porn star, and a prostitute is actually (in my view, at least) not really that big. They're all exploiting their own bodies, getting paid to perform. It's merely a question of how far they're willing to go. An eighteen year-old willing to suck cock on camera for $400 and get insulted is certainly working harder than another eighteen year-old modeling the slinkiest of bikinis (tweaking her nipples between shots so the all-important "nip shot" can be featured prominently), but they aren't that far removed from each other ethically. It's a moral construct that tells us one is better than the other; as a practical matter, both are playing to desires of the flesh.

Again, just to clarify--real rapists hate women and need to be rejected out of hand. Any video known to be real has to be discarded; any video that is substantially questionable should be thrown out as well. Videos that comport with accepted legal standards are perfectly acceptable (indeed, enjoyed, although some go too far even for my extravagant tastes). There's plenty of gray area in between...

[Chad Michael Michaels]

If someone has the video upped send me a pm with a link.