ALI or TYSON ? - Rape Board

MADDOGMCMANAMAN · 07-11-2008, 02:32 PM

Following on from Rasputins thread, who do you think was the greatest boxer?

I know that Muhammed Ali is recognised as the greatest, but i always have this feeling that he would have been defeated by a Tyson in his prime. Tyson maybe an arsehole now, but in his prime i do not think there was a more ferocious boxer.

dashrendar44 · 07-11-2008, 02:52 PM

ali, no question. imho the only good thing that came out of tysons carrer was "mike tysons punchout!" for the NES...20 years later and its still the greatest boxing game ever XD

somedude · 07-11-2008, 02:58 PM

Mike Tyson's Punchout was an awesome game

Super Punchout was a good one too!
On the subject of the thread Ali was taller, had reach and speed on Tyson and was a far more skilled boxer. Mike Tyson is one of the ten best heavyweights of all time but does not make the top five while Ali is debateable for the best heavyweight of all time. So Ali in about 8 would be my guess if they met in their prime!

MADDOGMCMANAMAN · 07-11-2008, 03:01 PM

Sorry i got my question a bit wrong, i also agree that muhammed ali was the greatest.

What my question should have been - If it was magically posssible - Who would have won in a fight between both Boxers in their prime ?

I think Tyson would.

somedude · 07-11-2008, 03:05 PM

Like I said, Ali in 8 rounds!

touriquet2001 · 07-11-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADDOGMCMANAMAN

who do you think was the greatest boxer?

Joe Louis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Louis

rasputin · 07-11-2008, 06:00 PM

No offense but anyone who asks this question perhaps is not much of a boxing fan. Everybody knows that Ali was by far better, fought during a deeper era, accomplished far more, and ( although I dislike him immensely...) was probably the greatest heavyweight boxer that ever lived.

And yes, I am a Tyson fan. I owe him many a precious and exciting boxing event ( as opposed to Ali, who was usually boring and predictable...)

But Ali was by far greater than Mike. No contest.

rasputin · 07-11-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

Joe Louis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Louis

For the twentieth century, it's a toss up between Ali and Louis. But Louis fought during an era which was not too deep. That's what happened to Rocky Marciano: cursed by the times.

Here we have in Rocky Marciano a fighter that never lost a fight in 49 encounters, retired undefeated, but very few people remember him now.

What happened?

Well, he fought during a time when there were no Alis, Norton, Shavers, Holmes, Fraziers, or Tysons. And no George Foremans, thank God!

That's what happened.

Yes, he fought and defeated Joe Louis, but Joe was old and past his prime then. And the same can be said regarding Ezzard Charles, Walcott and Archie Moore ( who, by the way, wasn't even a legitimate heavy... )

So perhaps Joe Louis was greater than Ali. Perhaps. But we can't really conclude that by his record because the era he fought in was not really deep. In fact, the newspapers used to say that Louis would be fighting the next "bum of the month" every time there was a boxing event where he faced a challenger.

Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis: Two greats cursed by the times they fought in.

Too bad.

rasputin · 07-11-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somedude

Like I said, Ali in 8 rounds!

Actually, Ali would be winning the fight way before that. Ali was a master at psychological manipulation, very often upsetting his opponent to confusion. He did that with Liston - who thought Clay was crazy. And he did it with most of his foes. The most infamous case was Joe Frazier, where Ali even compared him to a gorilla and insulted him pretty bad.

Ali would mess with Tyson's head so bad before the fight, that Mike would be a bundle of hardly contained fury come fight time and all his game plan would fly out the window.

Ali's fighting style, arm reach, and speed was all wrong for Mike. Mike has short arms. He would have to get close in order to hit Ali effectively, which would place him within Ali's range. And Ali had mean speed and a deadly accuracy.

Ali then would be pop shooting him from a distance and running in circles all night and Mike would be following him like an automaton and getting hit repeatedly in the head with reckless abandon just like happened in the Lewis fight.

Remember: Ali's main target was always the head. He hardly ever hit the body. He was a head hunter.

Not a happy outcome for Mike.

touriquet2001 · 07-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasputin

For the twentieth century, it's a toss up between Ali and Louis. But Louis fought during an era which was not too deep. That's what happened to Rocky Marciano: cursed by the times.

Here we have in Rocky Marciano a fighter that never lost a fight in 49 encounters, retired undefeated, but very few people remember him now.

What happened?

Well, he fought during a time when there were no Alis, Norton, Shavers, Holmes, Fraziers, or Tysons. And no George Foremans, thank God!

That's what happened.

Yes, he fought and defeated Joe Louis, but Joe was old and past his prime then. And the same can be said regarding Ezzard Charles, Walcott and Archie Moore ( who, by the way, wasn't even a legitimate heavy... )

So perhaps Joe Louis was greater than Ali. Perhaps. But we can't really conclude that by his record because the era he fought in was not really deep. In fact, the newspapers used to say that Louis would be fighting the next "bum of the month" every time there was a boxing event where he faced a challenger.

Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis: Two greats cursed by the times they fought in.

Too bad.

i like him (and i'm not old enough to actually have seen him) because of how often he defended his title . as you say that was part of the area , but other fighters of his time didn't do it . i agree with everything you said about "rocky" , he's another fav of mine . he just wasn't around long enough to compare to "joe" IMO . he was only champ for 4 years .

and today you're lucky if your favorite fighter fights twice a year

touriquet2001 · 07-11-2008, 06:34 PM

as for ali and mike ...

you can't forget ali's great "team" he had around him . they won the "rumble in the jungle" as much as ali did .

poor george just couldn't take the heat

rasputin · 07-11-2008, 06:48 PM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

i like him (and i'm not old enough to actually have seen him) because of how often he defended his title . as you say that was part of the area , but other fighters of his time didn't do it .

Yep. Also, back then, there was only ONE champion. That's it. Not like today where you have all those alphabet soup organizations with a "champion" here, and a "champion" there.

In fact, if you were to ask a casual boxing fan who the heavyweight boxing champion is today, probably he wouldn't be able to tell you. There are a lot of "champions..." in the same division!!!

Back then things were more clear. You had to beat up everybody in order to make it to the top. And there was only ONE top. One mountain. One champion. One crown. Not five or six like now.

Quote:

i agree with everything you said about "rocky" , he's another fav of mine . he just wasn't around long enough to compare to "joe" IMO . he was only champ for 4 years .

And he didn't defend much, either. But of course, the man did what he was supposed to do: beat every foe he ever met in the ring.

Quote:

and today you're lucky if your favorite fighter fights twice a year

Yeah. Back then fighters had to fight often or else they would not eat. They didn't have residuals or endorsements from popular brands like they do now, sometimes. I sometimes think they were even tougher than today's spoiled brats like Floyd Mayweather, etc.

touriquet2001 · 07-11-2008, 06:55 PM

lol can't disagree with any of that rasputin

rasputin · 07-11-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

lol can't disagree with any of that rasputin

Did you take a look at the "Tyson Takei" thread I opened? Watch that fight! It's greatly entertaining and there is a funny double knock down there, too!

What a heart that little Korean midget showed!!!

Ragman · 07-11-2008, 07:24 PM

Sorry to sound like a broken record here but i gotta vote Ali as well.

tyson hits like a semi truck, he is a violent powerful boxer, but he isn't necessarily technically talented. at least not as much as Ali. A lot of the fight is mental And I am sure Ali would have been able to outwit Tyson who has always seemed to me to be more a bully than a fighter.

Ali wins If they fight in their prime.. though If they fought today.. Ali loses.. :P

JohnnyReb · 07-11-2008, 07:26 PM

A fight between Tyson and Ali would go something like this...

Tyson would go barreling in and start swinging. Ali would dance around him for a bit and then take his head off.

They'd then return to their respective corners and repeat the process. I rather doubt Tyson would even make it eight rounds.

rasputin · 07-11-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

A fight between Tyson and Ali would go something like this...

Tyson would go barreling in and start swinging. Ali would dance around him for a bit and then take his head off.

They'd then return to their respective corners and repeat the process. I rather doubt Tyson would even make it eight rounds.

I agree.

One of the reasons people give Tyson a chance is because of the great amount of pain Joe Frazier caused Ali.

Remember that Joe Frazier beat Ali the first time they met and many compare Joe to Mike in terms of arm reach, physical size, and fighting styles. Joe Frazier gave Ali fits and beat the beejeezus out of him in one of the best heavyweight fights of the 20th century.

Yes, people say: Joe Frazier gave Ali a run for his money, therefore, if Joe did it, Tyson can't be discounted.

But Frazier fought Ali when Ali was out of his prime already and rather rusty after having been sent to jail for 4 years. He had been inactive for a long time and that has an effect on a boxer no matter how gifted.

So that comparison, although intriguing, is not totally useful.

ezzdx · 07-11-2008, 07:42 PM

I chose Muhammed Ali.

I see Tyson is stronger but Ali is better in technique and he know how to win and how to read his rival's mind.
also I see Ali could be a symbol of the boxer better than Tyson,but if I have to chose a second one after Ali I would chose Tyson,at least he is the strongest boxer I saw in my life.

But where's the poll.

MARADONA · 07-11-2008, 07:46 PM

Ali...it wasn't easy to decide!

ChiTownHoney · 07-11-2008, 08:07 PM

Ali no doubt.

07-11-2008, 02:32 PM	#1
MADDOGMCMANAMAN PUSSYCRUSHER Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: YOUR MOMMAS HOUSE Posts: 2,161 Reputation: 9875	ALI or TYSON ? Following on from Rasputins thread, who do you think was the greatest boxer? I know that Muhammed Ali is recognised as the greatest, but i always have this feeling that he would have been defeated by a Tyson in his prime. Tyson maybe an arsehole now, but in his prime i do not think there was a more ferocious boxer. __________________ The Original PUSSYCRUSHER !!

07-11-2008, 02:52 PM	#2
dashrendar44 Kamina Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Deep In The African Jungles Of China Posts: 2,733 Reputation: 12819	ali, no question. imho the only good thing that came out of tysons carrer was "mike tysons punchout!" for the NES...20 years later and its still the greatest boxing game ever XD __________________ "Go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb!" ~ Kamina, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann "I've been thinking with my gut since I was 14, and I've come to the conclusion that my guts have shit for brains." ~ Rob Gordon, High Fidelity "All men are potential rapists. ALL MEN. Even the pope!" ~ Shirley Valentine "When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing." ~ John Rambo, Rambo IV "I don't think I'm easy to talk about. I've got a very irregular head. And I'm not anything that you think I am anyway." ~ Syd Barrett, Rolling Stone, December 1971

07-11-2008, 02:58 PM	#3
somedude W.I.R. and Marshal Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Way out West!!!! Posts: 8,566 Reputation: 124981	Mike Tyson's Punchout was an awesome game Super Punchout was a good one too! On the subject of the thread Ali was taller, had reach and speed on Tyson and was a far more skilled boxer. Mike Tyson is one of the ten best heavyweights of all time but does not make the top five while Ali is debateable for the best heavyweight of all time. So Ali in about 8 would be my guess if they met in their prime! __________________ I'm a pervert and proud of it!

07-11-2008, 03:01 PM	#4
MADDOGMCMANAMAN PUSSYCRUSHER Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: YOUR MOMMAS HOUSE Posts: 2,161 Reputation: 9875	Sorry i got my question a bit wrong, i also agree that muhammed ali was the greatest. What my question should have been - If it was magically posssible - Who would have won in a fight between both Boxers in their prime ? I think Tyson would. __________________ The Original PUSSYCRUSHER !!

07-11-2008, 03:05 PM	#5
somedude W.I.R. and Marshal Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Way out West!!!! Posts: 8,566 Reputation: 124981	Like I said, Ali in 8 rounds! __________________ I'm a pervert and proud of it!

07-11-2008, 06:00 PM	#7
rasputin Privileged Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 378 Reputation: 1534	No offense but anyone who asks this question perhaps is not much of a boxing fan. Everybody knows that Ali was by far better, fought during a deeper era, accomplished far more, and ( although I dislike him immensely...) was probably the greatest heavyweight boxer that ever lived. And yes, I am a Tyson fan. I owe him many a precious and exciting boxing event ( as opposed to Ali, who was usually boring and predictable...) But Ali was by far greater than Mike. No contest.

07-11-2008, 06:34 PM	#11
touriquet2001 please delete Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,805 Reputation: 35886	as for ali and mike ... you can't forget ali's great "team" he had around him . they won the "rumble in the jungle" as much as ali did . poor george just couldn't take the heat

07-11-2008, 06:55 PM	#13
touriquet2001 please delete Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,805 Reputation: 35886	lol can't disagree with any of that rasputin

07-11-2008, 07:24 PM	#15
Ragman Privileged Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: an alley near you Posts: 2,226 Reputation: 5535	Sorry to sound like a broken record here but i gotta vote Ali as well. tyson hits like a semi truck, he is a violent powerful boxer, but he isn't necessarily technically talented. at least not as much as Ali. A lot of the fight is mental And I am sure Ali would have been able to outwit Tyson who has always seemed to me to be more a bully than a fighter. Ali wins If they fight in their prime.. though If they fought today.. Ali loses.. :P __________________ "Aww He's just a silly, dirty little man. What's to be afraid of ?" 2

07-11-2008, 07:26 PM	#16
JohnnyReb Banned Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 238 Reputation: 298	A fight between Tyson and Ali would go something like this... Tyson would go barreling in and start swinging. Ali would dance around him for a bit and then take his head off. They'd then return to their respective corners and repeat the process. I rather doubt Tyson would even make it eight rounds.

07-11-2008, 07:42 PM	#18
ezzdx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Egypt Posts: 1,197 Reputation: 759	I chose Muhammed Ali. I see Tyson is stronger but Ali is better in technique and he know how to win and how to read his rival's mind. also I see Ali could be a symbol of the boxer better than Tyson,but if I have to chose a second one after Ali I would chose Tyson,at least he is the strongest boxer I saw in my life. But where's the poll.

07-11-2008, 07:46 PM	#19
MARADONA Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Land of the Lost Posts: 1,838 Reputation: 40272	Ali...it wasn't easy to decide!

07-11-2008, 08:07 PM	#20
ChiTownHoney Pa'l Mundo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: ObamaNation Posts: 2,460 Reputation: 33436	Ali no doubt.