Racism or ignorance

[pervipete]

But love, they used the same justifications...the same ideas...ban them, deports, a war against them...don't let anymore in...

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/responses.htm

Something you have to remember, it was not the Nazis who invented anti-semitism, they just used it as a building block, then...we all no how well that turned out for the world.

Would you have banned all catholics because of the IRA?

And how much of this have you seen with your own two eyes, not through the press or innuendo?

[Lucy.]

I'm sorry but read my points again:

- UAE flags being draped over famous British monuments, and tourists not allowed to go to said monuments because police must protect the protesters.
- Bombs going off on normal London buses that are carrying old women, people going to work and children.
- Death threats from British Muslims against our royal prince, because he fights for his country.
- Bomb threats at major soccer grounds holding 70,000 people.
- Benefit cheats that are not from this country, who rake in thousands of tax payers money and go out and preach how we should all be killed.
- People who come over, claim benefits and do not bother to learn the language or tradition, and hide the terrorists in their community.
- Government and sympathists who let terrorists get treated better than citizens.

I just don't see any justification for having people like that in our country. It scares me knowing my neighbour could be making bombs to kill people.

Do you remember the greek thing about the horse? Where they got all their soldiers inside? We know for a fact that there are terrorists in our country. I have seen the bus bombed killing elderly people. I have seen our nations monuments draped in Arab flags (it actually made me feel sick, it was a more surreal experience than you think it would be), and yes, I do believe a lot of the press reports are true.

In my eyes there is a difference between the Nazi's and Islam in Britain. Its quite cultish. Their preachers walk our streets telling their young to kill YOU. I know that you look on the bright side more than me, but its quite scary. Before the Islam thing, I'd never seen a gun in london before and now I see one every time I visit. I don't want to live like that really.

When I think of a bomb going off and killing say just 9 people. They were just travelling on a bus. To go to work. I do that. You seem to be able to read these things without connecting any emotion to them, but I can't. What if it was a loved one that was just in a shopping centre at the wrong time?

I know it seems racist but if people want to go to war with us, I'd rather they weren't inside the country. Its scary and I don't like it really. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but I just want to feel safe when I go to visit the capital and at the moment I'm wary.

I'm not discussing it further though as we just have different viewpoints and I really don't want to offend you or vice versa. Night hun x

[pervipete]

Night honey.

[Sternenlied]

Well, I see a huge difference between being wary of a specific sub-group (eventually counting as racism) and being generally racist.

For example:

I have been called a "Christian whore" by Muslims several times. I have been physically attacked four times by Muslims, two times by Christian pro-life protesters. I have been sexually harassed by one black man and by at least a dozen white guys. I have been in some way insulted, harassed, pretty whatever any woman might encounter during her days on isolated incidents by people belonging to religions, social groups, cultures, ...

Now, I never developed any general racism, sexism, etc. - I hate men, though - since I (rationally) know quite well one can't judge all people by the behaviour of a (relatively) small sample. Still one's personal experiences - no matter insignificant those "statistics" may be, compared to the world's population - they still form our mindset, our reaction and attitude towards people. Whether we want it or not.

The difference between racism and personal caution - in my opinion - is constantly questioning our feelings and objectively observing our thoughts. "Giving in" to a general hatred towards a specific group of people without doing so breeds "real" (and thus eventually dangerous and violent) racism.

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Well, I see a huge difference between being wary of a specific sub-group (eventually counting as racism) and being generally racist.

For example:

I have been called a "Christian whore" by Muslims several times. I have been physically attacked four times by Muslims, two times by Christian pro-life protesters. I have been sexually harassed by one black man and by at least a dozen white guys. I have been in some way insulted, harassed, pretty whatever any woman might encounter during her days on isolated incidents by people belonging to religions, social groups, cultures, ...

Now, I never developed any general racism, sexism, etc. - I hate men, though - since I (rationally) know quite well one can't judge all people by the behaviour of a (relatively) small sample. Still one's personal experiences - no matter insignificant those "statistics" may be, compared to the world's population - they still form our mindset, our reaction and attitude towards people. Whether we want it or not.

The difference between racism and personal caution - in my opinion - is constantly questioning our feelings and objectively observing our thoughts. "Giving in" to a general hatred towards a specific group of people without doing so breeds "real" (and thus eventually dangerous and violent) racism.

This is a great post.

It is very hard not to think "he upset me, he's black.." "he also upset me, he's black.." "he also upset me he's black.." and then not to associate black people with upsetting you.

It would be the same with "he was rude.. he's a white chav". Once enough of any sort of culture exhibit behaviour patterns (such as muslims terrorism, black knife attacks or white guys in football shirts being hooligans), you become naturally wary. I don't know if its racism, because its not that you hate them.

You just tend to think "people in groups wearing football shirts are more likely to whistle and grope me than people in suits and ties" and avoid them.

Its prejudist, because there are people who go to football games in shirts who despise the hooligans, just as there are muslims who despise the terrorists. Someone in a suit is just as capable of being rude as someone in a football shirt. But its the way your brain takes the statistics, it makes me naturally cautious and if I'm honest, a little prejudice.

[FuckingRotter]

"Racism" has become a joke in this country. A dimwit and a Bollywood princess fall out on national television and the dimwit is branded a racist. Suggest there is too much immigration? Racist. Oppose third world aid? Racist. Fly a cross of St George, oh no you can't do that me old China because it means you're racist.

Then you get the other end of the spectrum that insists that every cultural or religious viewpoint has to be catered for and cosseted. Not merely tolerated, but if we had a sudden influx of Americans then no doubt every public service leaflet would have to be re-written with Americanised spelling so that the poor little helpless hard done by banana boat babies could be helped. New cultural diversity policies would have to be writtenin every town hall, hospital trust and police station across the nation, and not one of them would be the same. And Steve Wright would no longer be able to invite Ask Elvis on his show just in case some idiot from Solihull got offended on behalf of his American friend.

Ask yourself which is the more derogotory standpoint of the two?

[RavishAGirl]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

I have been called a "Christian whore" by Muslims several times. I have been physically attacked four times by Muslims, two times by Christian pro-life protesters. I have been sexually harassed by one black man and by at least a dozen white guys.

Whoa. People need to chill.

//Ravish

[pervipete]

Personnally, I think racism is hating someone, or looking down on them because of their skin colour, or origins.

Now I not naive enough to think that only white English people are racist, all cultures have a certain amount of discrimination towards another. I not even talking about not loving your country, or asking for the 'gates to be opened' to quote the Daily Snail.

Now, you are right some of the daftest ideas have come from people trying not to offend other cultures, usually in a situation where no offence is going to be commited. Most asians, arabs I've met couldn't care less even way. Some of them even buy christmas cards, and gifts.

Though the Mails 'Christmas to be renamed Winter Festival' story they churn out every xmas is about five or six years old.

My point about the Nazis was that they used some of the same language to justify their anti-semitism.

For example, a war on world Jewry, all jews are parasites, etc. And people followed because it suited their prejudices.

[ChiTownHoney]

1) Are some things that are considered racist, more ignorance? and vice versa, misunderstood banter?

Ignorance can be a caused by racist or racial comments. But true racism comes not from ignorance, but from pure hate. Real racists are not ignorant.

2) If someone is not racist, but says racist things to upset someelse, is that still racism, or just nastiness?

A racist comment is a racist comment no matter who is saying or what their views are. for example, I called my ex boyfriend a racial slur just once, this was a time when he really pissed me off. I have no prejudice against his culture because we are of the same culture! But I did it to him just because I knew that it would piss him off. I knew that people had called him that slur alot since he was a kid, so I just knew it would hurt him. And hearing it from my mouth really really hurt him. Obviously, since his race is my own, I cant be racist against my own. Or can I?

3) Can some of what the press say help encourage racism?

Eh, maybe. They can say "black on black crime is higher than any crime because blacks have a jungle mentality" or something and that can encourage racism.


4) Is it hypocritical of someone who says 'I hate all foreigners', then to have friends from a different race?

Absolutely not! You can definitely hate all foreigners and not be racist! may I REMIND you that Racism is hatred for a color, not a culture. You can be a white American with Asian and black friends and cant stand foriegners or those damn Polish and German immigrants hopping off the damn boat!

5) And, are accusations of racism sometimes used to stiffle debate.

What does stiffle mean? Encourage or to stop?

As for your other comments on indian or Pakistani stuff...Well, I dont know anything about that. Us American are too busy putting all the blacks in jail and kicking Mexicans back across the border to be worried about what the rag heads are doing.

[ChiTownHoney]

I have a question, and this is going to sound really really ignorant of me.

In England, is everyone considered "english" white? Like everyone of a different color is considered "foriegn". Thats what it sounds like coming from Pete.

[pervipete]

It's a matter of opinion, Chi, one of those things that depend on your point of view.

Some only consider you to be English/ British if you are white and can trace your ancestry back a couple of generations.

Others, it is if you born in the country, so say you would be, for example English of Indian descent, similar to African-American, Italian American etc.

On of the things, ironically, that force an, for want of a better term, division is some of the PCesques forms where, because they need to keep track of how services are used, and by what races and if there is any discrimination, it is marked as White British, then all the other races. It's been a time since I've filled in one of these forms so I don't know if they have changed.

[snarkopo]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Well, I see a huge difference between being wary of a specific sub-group (eventually counting as racism) and being generally racist.

For example:

I have been called a "Christian whore" by Muslims several times. I have been physically attacked four times by Muslims, two times by Christian pro-life protesters. I have been sexually harassed by one black man and by at least a dozen white guys. I have been in some way insulted, harassed, pretty whatever any woman might encounter during her days on isolated incidents by people belonging to religions, social groups, cultures, ...

Now, I never developed any general racism, sexism, etc. - I hate men, though - since I (rationally) know quite well one can't judge all people by the behaviour of a (relatively) small sample. Still one's personal experiences - no matter insignificant those "statistics" may be, compared to the world's population - they still form our mindset, our reaction and attitude towards people. Whether we want it or not.

The difference between racism and personal caution - in my opinion - is constantly questioning our feelings and objectively observing our thoughts. "Giving in" to a general hatred towards a specific group of people without doing so breeds "real" (and thus eventually dangerous and violent) racism.

Ah fuck. Fuck, fuck fuck. Not all men are like those you have experienced and I think you know that. I have been around awhile and I can tell you these guys you encountered are in the minority, But I know, what your life experience has been will always prevail in ones innate feelings. There is a man out there who will care for you, love you and protect you at all costs, and sacrifice himself if needed.I know that sounds a bit hokey but it's true,

Just my 2 cents.

[FinalKey]

This thread made my day lol I needed a good chuckle. *thumbs up*

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by snarkopo

Ah fuck. Fuck, fuck fuck. Not all men are like those you have experienced and I think you know that. I have been around awhile and I can tell you these guys you encountered are in the minority, But I know, what your life experience has been will always prevail in ones innate feelings. There is a man out there who will care for you, love you and protect you at all costs, and sacrifice himself if needed.I know that sounds a bit hokey but it's true,

Just my 2 cents.

Is that the impression I gave concerning my feelings?

Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney

In England, is everyone considered "english" white? Like everyone of a different color is considered "foriegn". Thats what it sounds like coming from Pete.

England is pretty much like every other country.
Some people only consider "pure", white people with a long English ancestry truly "English" while others don't mind that much for how long your family has been around or what colour your skin is.

[menace]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

England is pretty much like every other country.
Some people only consider "pure", white people with a long English ancestry truly "English" while others don't mind that much for how long your family has been around or what colour your skin is.

Some countries are even worse in that respect.

[Uncle Al]

Originally Posted by pervipete

Here's couple of questions for you all,

Now there is this women at work who seems thinks it fine to belittle me and wind me up, that is try to offend me.

Racism is made of 100% ignorance. Because even if a girl has right to free speech, she's doing wrong.

Ok, maybe I'm a little off topic, but I need to ask this: is that woman valid rapeable material?

[pervipete]

That's probably true, racism is eternal,

You see I'm in a weird position, as my ancestry depends on who you believe.

On my mums family has been traced back as far as the mid 19th century.

My dads is a little muddled

According to one of my aunts, my Grandfathers family came from Ireland, and my nans from Scotland.

My surname is one that is largely associated with Ireland, but the trouble is my, well some of that side of the family are not known for truthfullness, so I'm a little about it, and as my father, both grandparents and that aunt are dead, then confirming it is a little 'difficult'. And it's not something important enough to go to the effort of contacting the only person, my uncle, on that side of the family, that I could trust to tell me the truth.

[Lucy.]

Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney

I have a question, and this is going to sound really really ignorant of me.

In England, is everyone considered "english" white? Like everyone of a different color is considered "foriegn". Thats what it sounds like coming from Pete.

Its strange.. traditionally we are a white country. Everyone else is not truly British in my personal opinion.

Think about it.. dad comes from africa. mum comes from africa.. child is born in England. Is that child really English? or an African born in England. Two different thought processes.

There is an England cricket player. His surname is Panthasar, he wears a turban and looks very similar to Osama Bin Laden. He is obviously of Indian heritage yet he represents England as an English player.

Personally I don't see how he can be English. But people have different views on this.

[pervipete]

Don't worry Lucy, we are taking our cue from the Welsh National football squad. Had a holiday in Rhyl, then you are eligible Remember Vinnie Jones?

Actually that is a good question, so good that they is no right or wrong answer..

What defines a person, where they are born, where they are raised, there heritage, all of these, none of these?

And this may surprise you, I don't know how I feel about this point.

[Lucy.]

Well I always saw it that my dad is Welsh. My mother is Welsh. So I am welsh or British.

If my dad was Welsh and my mother was Spanish, and I was born in either country, I would be half Welsh-half Spanish.

If my dad was Welsh and my mum was Welsh and I was born in Spain I would be a Welsh girl born in Spain.

So yes, if a black man is half-african half-british then he is a British citizen in my opinion. If his mum and dad came from Africa and he was born here, then its simply the place of his birth. He is African and should not have rights of an British citizen.

Just my opinion though, and theres varying viewpoints. People get in national teams because of their grandparents descent and things. It blurs the line. They are not British in my opinion.