Self Respect

[Seventeen]

Do you think that a female that has rape fantasies has little or no self-respect? Especially if she allows a man to act out his fantasies on her? Or says she wouldn't report it if she were raped?

Is that showing no self- respect or worth?

[kcmoccy]

i am not sure i can answer this as well as the more contemplative members of the board, i just think a woman can have little self-respect in this aspect

but it's also a thing of power i'd imagine to have men lusting over you??? to be so desireable in some way that a man cannot control his urges? and 'breaks the rules' so to speak?

or could want to be accepted by a men enough to let him try out his fantasy, or loves him enough to comply if she is not a fan of it

there are too many factors that go into why a woman would desire it that way and i am not as informed as others, but i would have to say that it varies from woman to woman

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by Seventeen

Especially if she allows a man to act out his fantasies on her?

The operative word being "allows" ... thus staying in control and having the power.

There is no single, absolute answer to you question.
Women may have ravishment fantasies for various reasons and may live them in numerous ways. Just like men their personalities can differ - so of course there are some who have low self-esteem.

You put three different scenarios in your question which are not the same at all:

1) A woman having rape fantasies (sexual preference, not an actual wish to be raped of course).

2) A woman who lets her partner realize his rape fantasies with her.

3) A woman who wouldn't report being raped for real.

Well ... (all answers are the statistically most common ones, not all possibilities):

1) A woman having rape fantasies of her own simply "suffers" from a sexual fetish like many other people. In this case it's ravishment fantasy.
Might be she's in a position of power at work and needs to let go, might be she's proud and needs to be put down now and then, might be she's dealing with some sort and psychological trauma (those can breed sexual preferences), might be she enjoys dominant males, might be ...

2) A woman letting her partner "abuse" her although she doesn't necessarily enjoy the fetish herself may have self-esteem issues, may cope with trauma, may simply be willing to experiment sexually, might enjoy degradation without any sexual arousal, ...

3) A woman not willing to report being raped ... well, that's a very personal decision that has nothing to do with sexual preferences or self-esteem.
Can be shame, fear, doubt, etc ...

[kellyb987]

Sternenlied has a good reply. It can be just a fantasy, an issue of control or about self-esteem. The only person that can really answer that is the person experiencing it and that takes a lot of honesty. It took me a long time to be honest with myself but I like playing on both the control and self-esteem parts of it. The self-esteem part is a slippery slope because that behavior reinforces itself so if you are experiencing it in that way, be careful.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by Seventeen

Do you think that a female that has rape fantasies has little or no self-respect? Especially if she allows a man to act out his fantasies on her? Or says she wouldn't report it if she were raped?

Is that showing no self- respect or worth?

This is a very good question. I was watching Oprah the other day and they were talking about teenage relationships and abuse and she said "By not letting somebody hit you, you are saying that you love yourself, and that you respect yourself too much and it is offensive to you as a person to be abused." Obviously that statement is very accurate, and I do agree that women in abusive relationships have low self esteem.

However, considering rape fantasy and BDSM and all that, I think its all of a matter of "you like what you like" Rape is not just about being disrespected and abused. Rape is a very powerful thing. Its psychological. It has alot to do with power, human desires, human nature, sexuality, sin, perversion, guilt - all that stuff...all these things that humans are made of, you cant have the good without the evil. Rape is 90% psychological in my opinion.

So for the woman who has rape fantasy, it may not be about her saying "oh, I just want some guy to come beat me and violate me." No, it may sound more like..

"I want someone to want me, to unleash my own sexual desires which I am too afraid to address".

or "I crave a man who knows that he is the king of my world and that he will take control and use his powerful body to force himself upon me like a savage beast".

OR it may sound "I want someone to abuse me because deep inside, I am soul-less, I dont care about anything, I am a terrible person, so I want someone to violate me because I dont deserve anything more".

There are a million reasons why someone has and acts out rape fantasies. Each one of us is different! I am sure there are those with little self respect or worth, so that they feel they should be abused because of their self-hate.
but, our reasons are all different. Just because we like to have our hair pulled and ass spanked in the bedroom does not mean that we will take abuse from anyone else out on the street.

All that we are made up of....the good and the evil in us...and much more, the darkest corners of the human psyche, what we desire and what we want will all differ. Thats what our fantasies are made up of.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by kcmoccy

but it's also a thing of power i'd imagine to have men lusting over you??? to be so desireable in some way that a man cannot control his urges? and 'breaks the rules' so to speak?

I think this is one of the major reasons I have my fantasies...if theres one thing in life that I love (ok, two things) its birthday cake and men. Better if it were a man to bring me a cake.

Unfortunately, I had to give up both in a journey of self-exploration and a sexier figure. God, I miss cake!

[Flesh4Fantasy]

Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney

Just because we like to have our hair pulled and ass spanked in the bedroom does not mean that we will take abuse from anyone else out on the street.

All that we are made up of....the good and the evil in us...and much more, the darkest corners of the human psyche, what we desire and what we want will all differ. Thats what our fantasies are made up of.

An important distinction which may touch upon the heart of the original question.

Seventeen, it is as Chi said above...

What happens consensually during the privacy of play does not NEED to define who you are in your everyday life. (Although for some it may.)

Also, what you fantasize may not be what you ALLOW to happen during play. The distance between thought and act may be very great. It takes (or should take) much time together with a partner to build the trust that allows thought and act to come closer together.

Much goes on in my mind that I would not act out. I have been with partners who will confess a certain fantasy - but will have no desire to experience these things for real. If your play sessions are otherwise (acts forced on you that you don't want) then that is abuse which is separate from fantasy and would be unhealthy.

Originally Posted by Seventeen

Do you think that a female that has rape fantasies has little or no self-respect? Especially if she allows a man to act out his fantasies on her? Or says she wouldn't report it if she were raped?

Is that showing no self- respect or worth?

"Especially if she allows a man to act out his fantasies on her?"

Are we talking true willingness in the participation?
Or a justification after the fact that something was "allowed" that maybe got out of hand?

But now the questioning borders on the extremely personal and I would not expect an answer here... Simply food for thought...

[Seventeen]

Big thanks to everyone for your thoughts and input. I guess I was feeling a bit of guilt about the fantasy.

Chi Town Honey - you made a lot of sense about it being 90% psychological. I agree that there must be different reasons for different people, and this one makes the most sense for me:
"I want someone to want me, to unleash my own sexual desires which I am too afraid to address". However, I want him to unleash it by force - I don't want to be the guilty party in my own sluttiness. I don't really want to ever give in unless I am forced to in order to save myself. It is the moment when I know he has overpowered me and there is nothing I can do about it (I have no choice but to submit) - THAT is the moment that I am most turned on - so I don't think that it really has anything to do with low-self esteem (for me anyway) - I think it has more to do with the intoxicating pleasure that comes from mixing power with sex.

[BTN]

I was initally refered to this site by a female friend. But by refered I mean she blurted out the existence of the site while drunk and the paniced for a few seconds until she realised I wasn't wigging out at her.

The young lady in question is one of the more confident women I know. But sure she has her insecurities. As much as she likes the nastier elements of sex and attention from men its very easy to hurt her feelings. Basicly any women who are into all this either do have poor self respect or indeed quite fragile egos.

In other words....handle with care while you rape the living daylights out of them

[All_Tied_Up]

It might also have something to do with having too much self-respect. Women like that also want to be kept on a leash at times, and have their dignity taken away in a brutal manner.

like my bf said a while back: 'Some women look so cocky, so self-possessed, that you have to fuck it out of them'

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by BTN

Basicly any women who are into all this either do have poor self respect or indeed quite fragile egos.

That's rubbish!

[BTN]

Maybe I should have said "in my experience"

I'll admit to not being all knowing, particularly when it comes to women. But I have found that the wilder girls are the ones that seem to be easier to hurt, usually by rejecting them or even putting a name to their behaviour. Some sluts don't like being called sluts.

Incidently, the difference between a slut and a bitch?

A slut fucks everyone. A bitch fucks everyone except you

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by BTN

I'll admit to not being all knowing, particularly when it comes to women. But I have found that the wilder girls are the ones that seem to be easier to hurt, usually by rejecting them or even putting a name to their behaviour. Some sluts don't like being called sluts.

How am I supposed to take this?
Are you calling the women around here - the "wilder ones" - sluts now?

What is the difference between a slut and a bitch?

Simply what frustrated people call them.

Maybe some "sluts" don't like to be called sluts because what they do and why they do it is nobody's business?

[BTN]

I think maybe I'm looking at this from my less serious point of view. Which is something I always do. Lifes a bit too serious in itself so why stress out. Thats just me though.

I am in no way calling anyone here a slut. But I think in a way your reaction to my post has illustrated my point. Sure yourself, the ladies of this board and women in nightclubs everywhere can behave as they want. Just because a girl is all around the club talking to every guy and sitting on a few laps and having a laugh doesn't mean she is what shes being percived as. Even though she may or may not be noing it deliberatly giving her the label probabilly isn't the nicest thing to do. And yes that happens when people have been drinking.

I ended my last post with a little joke which was clearly taken too seriously and for that I appologies

[pervipete]

I want to make something clear from the start some of what I am going to say MAY sound like I am being disrespectful to the women in this site. That IS NOT my intent. If anyone is offended by what I am about to write, then please accept my sincere apologise.

When I first joined, I was amazed by the amount of women that were into this, but that to be honest, naivety on my part.

I think the problem is people are complicated.

I do wonder with some of the females on this site whether the fact that they had been abused, some at the start of, or even before, their sexual developement, maybe Stern can cast some light on this. Maybe if someone is called a slut or a whore long enough at an early enough stage then that is what they will always see themselves as.

I have complete and utter respect and admiration for any woman, or man for that matter, who has survived such traumatic events. I am loath to use such terms as victim and sympathy as these always, to my mind at least, bring an image of a pathetic person, hiding in a corner.

While I have not spoken to everywoman on her, of the ones that I have spoken either via posts or IM, I would not use words like pathetic, strong maybe, stronger than maybe they think, but not pathetic.

I personally believe that a woman who enjoys sex, lots of sex, whether is the purer, more vanila forms, threesomes through to the more extreme desires, is a slut. I would be loath to call any woman a slut, unless, and I know that there are few, this is something that turns her on.

For others, you might as well ask why some women fantasize about the DeCaprio's and others the Statham's of the movie world.

As Chi says, what works, works.

As long as you, safe, happy and enjoying the experience, than I don't think you have anything to feel guilty or worried about.

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by BTN

I think maybe I'm looking at this from my less serious point of view. Which is something I always do. Lifes a bit too serious in itself so why stress out. Thats just me though.

Granted, I'll accept your point of view is different of course.

The reasons why some women around here might take this more serious than you do is a rather simple one.

Many of us - inclusing myself - are successful career women. Unlike men, we can't just "have" a career and simply "be" successful.

We have to fight rumors of sleeping our way up, sexual advances concerning our "head abilities", remarks about our revealing clothes, the sexiness of our voices and instant debates about our sexual habits if we give even a hint about having a date - just to give a few examples - every single day the moment we start work.

So yes ... some women are more sensitive to being called names and being labelled.
Not because our self-esteem is so low but simply because we're sick of being objectified by stupid wankers all the time.

We are well aware the male need to degrade us simply because we chose to express our sexual desires freely derives from male insecurity and envy. Doesn't mean we cannot be sick of it.

[All_Tied_Up]

so... what are males that enjoy extreme, or mass ammounts of sex? Are they sluts too?

[Sternenlied]

If you ask men?
No, of course not - those are "studs".
Those men don't threaten other males in their security so much.

[BTN]

What you have just said is more or less what I thought. Although from my dumb male point of view I couldn't articulate it as well as you. I was just guessing at the feelings and thoughts. But yes dispite behaviour or even in the face of normal behaviour its not a good thing to be using these names or attitudes.

I have alot of close friends who are women. Sometimes one or two of them go out, get drunk and do things that make me shake my head. But I never judge them for it. Hell its how I met a couple of them and now I have valued friendships with them.

[BTN]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

If you ask men?
No, of course not - those are "studs".
Those men don't threaten other males in their security so much.

lol.....the guys you mean get called "alpha males" and yes they can be a bit intimidating.

The sexes just don't get eachother do they?