Fuck christianity! It's full of hypocrites!

[ego]

Excellent posts Snale!
Emily is somehow right also. As long as i understand, you speak about the theoritical Christianism, while she speaks about the applicated one.

What i am not (yet) sure about, is this:

Jesus tends to explain pure goodness and pure evil doesn't exist.

I think evil is made, its an artifact and thus it can be destroyed.

[shysnale]

Excellent posts Snale!
Emily is somehow right also. As long as i understand, you speak about the theoritical Christianism, while she speaks about the applicated one.

Of course, read me back : (just the bold sentences)

None of the Christians you are accusing is pretending to apply perfectly his religion. But some faith is better than no faith at all. It's like a dad teaching his kid. Don't get drunk kid, it's no good for you. But you know, I sometimes got drunk when I had too many worries at work. So my dear little kid, you have to find out the subtle balance between healthy drinking & fancy drinking. No. It doesn't work like that. Every rule has to be written in a straight and clear way otherwise it won't make it through the test of time. You have to understand man always got shit scared of the great unknowed. Whenever you call it apocalypse or flooding or the lightning strikes of divine justice.....man needs images and historical heritage to give the mind something to rely on. Don't take things at the first degree. You think god is too straight ? You got tired of the great beardy rule maker living in the clouds ? Ok. Give up on the ancient testament and just read or reread the new testament. There you will find the one considered as god's son : Jesus. Look at the way he dealt with all the dilemns and conflictuals situations he found in Israel back then, and you will notice someone who goes far behind the ten commandments. Every rule has an exception and finds a situation were compromises can be found in everybody's interest. The 'You should not kill' commandment is just a basis that can be adapt to critical situations. Look at the templar, they were armed monks. You think they would let someone step on them when some troublemaker started to sneak around ? When order comes in the play, when people lives can be endangered, then violence can be the last ressort. The 'You should not kill' commandment can be linked with the 'Care and love your brothers' Jesus advice. What I'm trying to tell you is that no rule and no teachings will ever be perfect enough to fit will all situations that can come up from that twisted planet we're living on. But this is not a good reason for us to become weak. As long as some leaders will come up with some good advice to take, we should keep on writing them down and try to mix them with our lifes. Sometimes some frustrated Christians people will get way too straight, sometimes some of them will be too passive, but if you give a good look around, you will always find countries were a good balance is made with religion. Here in France we had this Priest called Father Gaillot. He had some trouble with the Vatican because he was taking religion to the tv sets and kind making a fool of himself. It took 6 years of him fooling around before the pope Jean Paul 2 decided to fire him. That's a bit better than the St Inquisition work back then, right ? I don't know how seriously someone like me posting pics of murders in the rowdy room can be taken, but if you could allow me the benefice of the doubt, I can tell you about dozens christians associations here that work their ass off to get medication out there to Africa or any other countries in distress. We're just humans, we can't a all act perfectly, but it never hurts to try to answer questions of morality instead of letting ourselves drown in chaos.

What i am not (yet) sure about, is this:
I think evil is made, its an artifact and thus it can be destroyed.

Evil is not an artifact, it just derives from different points of view about how things can be handled. You can never separate them completely. How are you going to teach your kids to be good to their schoolmates if you can't use the image of evil as what shouldn't be done ? This image will remain in kids heads, and one day the image can become an act. But this choice is what makes a kid think and grow mature.

Have you ever heard about the Yin/Yang symbol ?

[sindyloo]

Of course we have heard of it....My Dear Shyone!!


Two symbols representing life itself. One black= bad/evil the other white=good/pure. Both coming together trying to destroy or replace the other!


Until finally realising the Futility of their Battle.........One can not exist with out the other!

We are each some of both...Good and Bad dwelling in us together how much of each??? WELL that depends on us and the life we lead!?

[ego]

Evil is not an artifact, it just derives from different points of view about how things can be handled. You can never separate them completely.

I guess "artifact" is not the right word, i am sorry i cant find a better one.
What i know is that it didnt exist since creation, it was "invented" afterwards. I used to believe that you cant seperate them, that one cant exist without the other. But if you read carefully, its clear: there has been time that evil didnt exist.

How are you going to teach your kids to be good to their schoolmates if you can't use the image of evil as what shouldn't be done ?

Good needs not to be teached. Everybody already has it in him.

This image will remain in kids heads, and one day the image can become an act. But this choice is what makes a kid think and grow mature.

That happens only because of the original sin, without it we wouldnt have knowledge of the evil.

Have you ever heard about the Yin/Yang symbol ?

Yes, off course.
I have heard about the EL symbol also, about the Delphic one, about the rael and many more.





They are made of humans, they express humans' thought and desires. Actually, they are nothing more than symbols, they dont have any power by themselves, neither they prove something.

Do not look at the flag, look whose hands are holding it.




P.S I liked that last one. I just found my new sig.

[Ntense]

I guess the Jews must have taken exception to the Star of David being adorned with a right-hand Swastika... I see they've since changed the Raelian symbol.

(before and after 1991)


The newer version is more like a lotus.

[Ntense]

Oh, and the Yin/Yang is more about duality in perception (male & female, light vs. dark, heaven & earth, passive vs. active, day & night, etc.)

Simplified, it's generally interpreted as "the whole, one with it's opposite, neither alone is complete by itself." It depends on which philosophy you're reading, though. I'm doing the translation from memory, but that's close enough for most of you Westerners. It's a fundamental concept in Eastern philosophy that doesn't have an exact equal in Western philosophy.

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

Originally Posted by shysnale

Matthew 13:24-29

The Parable of the Weeds

24 - Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 - But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 - When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 - The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28 - 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29 - 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

Through this parable Jesus tends to explain pure goodness and pure evil doesn't exist. It all goes together. If you take all bad away, good doesn't mean anything anymore & vice and versa. People have to deal with imperfections of life, and no one needs to fall in extreme behaviors to 'purge' himself ot others. What this parable is trying to say is be surrounded by evil is necessary to learn self control and to improve your behavior.

why didnt jesus just say it ?? whats with the fucking riddles man !!!!! he was son of god surely he knew how to communicate ??

i hate that riddles shit just like fucking shakespeare !! i wish i had time machine - i would go back in time and slap the shit out of him !!

I HATE SHAKESPEARE !!!!!!!!! FUCKING MUTHERFUCKER !

[shysnale]

Originally Posted by MADDOGMCMANAMAN

why didnt jesus just say it ?? whats with the fucking riddles man !!!!! he was son of god surely he knew how to communicate ??

i hate that riddles shit just like fucking shakespeare !! !

Matthew 13

10 the disciples came
and said to him,
"Why do you speak
to them
in parables?"
11 <But answering,>
he said to them,
To you has been given
to know the secrets
of the kingdom of Heaven,
but to them
it has not been given.
12 For <whoever> has,
<to him it will be given>,
and he will have abundance;
but <whoever has not>,
even what he has
will be taken away
<from him>.
13 This is why
I speak to them in parables,
***because
seeing
they do
not see,
and hearing
they do not hear,
nor do they understand.***
14 With them indeed is fulfilled
the prophecy of Isaiah
which says:
`You shall indeed hear
but never understand,
and you shall indeed see
but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart
has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy
of hearing,
and their eyes
they have closed,
lest they should perceive
with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand
with their heart,
and turn for me
to heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes,
for they see,
and your ears,
for they hear.
17 Truly, I say to you,
many prophets
and righteous men
longed to see what you see,
and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear,
and did not hear it."

[shysnale]

Good needs not to be teached. Everybody already has it in him.

Hoo looks like Greece is a nice place to be, I'll pay you a visit one of these days. Remember when you were a little boy, all these running girls around you, you used to put your hand on their butts did you ? And why did you stop ? Did you really become aware it was bad or did someone tell you ?

[ego]

Sure, why not? It would be better during summertime, but winter is fine also.

Well, i didnt stop! Its not bad to put a hand on a butt!







Anyway, i got your point. Someone can understand the bad actions he makes because of the reactions of others. In school, lets say you beat a child and then he cries.
What else you need to understand that beating children is bad?

Actually, listening (or telling) to others about what is good or bad breeds dangers. Go ask a fondamentalist priest what is the good treatment for a rape victim. His answer will vary from whip her to kill her by rocks throwing....

[shysnale]

Originally Posted by ego

Sure, why not? It would be better during summertime, but winter is fine also.

Yeah baby, I"ve heard it before, last minute you'll say I can't

[solostar]

First of all, let me preface my argument by saying I'm /not/ Christian, I'm Jewish, I just have broadly open views.

Accept these premises and we can get along:

1) Christianity and organized monotheism are a dominant force in our world.
2) They provide moral structure and guidance for a large proportion of humanity.
3) The darkness that lies in the heart of man has been somewhat contained.

By submitting to those three premises, I'd suggest we can carefully and correctly reason that Christianity has been some assistance in human history. Regardless of whether you feel Christianity is right or wrong, it has certainly had a great impact on the way we live our lives, and how far we've advanced.

Judeo-Christianity has been the harbinger of more progress than any other belief system, or system of government, the world has ever seen.

Not a fan of Christianity? How about disinfectants? How about flushing toilets?

From the same society that brought you Christianity... computers.

Thanks, guys.

[ego]

Originally Posted by shysnale

Yeah baby, I"ve heard it before, last minute you'll say I can't

Thats what i call negative thinking!


Anyway, i'll say i cant, but my dom female friend will be happy to meet you!

[ego]

How about flushing toilets?

I understand your point and i agree, but sanitation system has been found in Knossos palace, about 2.500 years before Christ. Ventilation system also, as much as system to supply hot and cold water.

And since we speak about computers, they could make some (analog) back in 80b.c

The Antikythera mechanism:





I believe religion's greatest contribute has been the culture it provided. It became the common point of people with no other relation.

[sindyloo]

Great point ego! Most of those inventions were really from ancient Greek....Roman Advances and as well as other BC....Civilations!


But the Chrstians did contribute one main thing that impacted History! And that was no guilt for those soldiers who went out and "Met new and interesting people..........and then killed them!!!

Man, woman and child as all were heathens and had to be killed in the name of the Christian God!


Moving foward a few centurys we then had sudden improvements in torture methods and Equipment........courtsey of the Inquistion!

Or should we argue that all of that did not happen??

[ego]

Yes of course, we "own" a lot to other advanced civs, such as Egyptians, Summerians and many others, i just know more details about Greeks.
And Babylon? The greatest of the sities!


And yes, all of that happened (and many more). But can we blame christianity (religion generally) for that?
I believe we should blame christians, not christianity....

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by ego

Do not look the flag, look whose hands are holding it.

P.S I liked that last one. I just found my new sig.

Love the sig, you should say "at the flag" though

[ego]

Thx Rogue, i'll edit asap.

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

Originally Posted by shysnale

Matthew 13

10 the disciples came
and said to him,
"Why do you speak
to them
in parables?"
11 <But answering,>
he said to them,
To you has been given
to know the secrets
of the kingdom of Heaven,
but to them
it has not been given.
12 For <whoever> has,
<to him it will be given>,
and he will have abundance;
but <whoever has not>,
even what he has
will be taken away
<from him>.
13 This is why
I speak to them in parables,
***because
seeing
they do
not see,
and hearing
they do not hear,
nor do they understand.***
14 With them indeed is fulfilled
the prophecy of Isaiah
which says:
`You shall indeed hear
but never understand,
and you shall indeed see
but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart
has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy
of hearing,
and their eyes
they have closed,
lest they should perceive
with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand
with their heart,
and turn for me
to heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes,
for they see,
and your ears,
for they hear.
17 Truly, I say to you,
many prophets
and righteous men
longed to see what you see,
and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear,
and did not hear it."

LMAO did u make that up or is that for real ??

[Emily Johnson]

Originally Posted by shysnale

My dear Emily, you have a serious need to read some history of religious events outside the Us, and most importantly, read the new testament. When I'm saying read, it doesn't mean jump from one line to another, really make a stop on Jesus parables and try to understand how they match in a life of a practical christian. Words like obedience or salvation are not needed. There's a lot of parts where Jesus leaves choices to people about what they want to do and wishes then the best for their future. Fear of god is not necessary. The only thing people should be affraid of is ignorance.

Don't get your panties in a wad Snale! This is the rowdy room and i was trying to offend. Kinda surprised no one bit at the al Queda remark actually.

I'm a Unitarian and am very aware that Christianity has a very powerful and attractive message: that of forgiveness. That we can all embrace Christ, be forgiven and start a new life unencumbered by our past sins and shortcomings.

And yes the Bible contains some great stuff, but lots of contradictions too. It's a fine book so long as it is not taken literally.

To be sure I have a strong dislike of Christians that preach the hellfire and not the love and acceptance aspects of the religion.

I am also aware that one reason the western world is blessed is that we went through an enlightenment that allows for secular thought. Look to the Islamic world if you want to see what Christianity would be today sans enlightenment. It is a pity that there are Christian fundamentalists in our midst that would like to roll back time to days before the enlightenment. Those people are scary!