Obama or McCain,who are you Voting for?

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by squidley

ChiTown,

World War Three would have been, and very well may still be, a nuclear war. Had Che or any others of the time succeeded in beginning that war, the only ones left cheering Che and waving little flags about it would have cockroaches.

I am not certain about how Che would have felt about that fan base, but then it probably wouldn't matter, because he would have been just dust and ash blowing on the wind like billions of other lost souls.

The Squid

Ok, so I am not a groupie of Che or waving a flag.

I admire him for what he did in his life. What he pursued and accomplished, his ideals and his heart. I wish I could have done something with my life like he did with his.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

you read way to much into my post . where did i comment on the right or wrong of cuba having missiles ? where did i comment on almost anything else you credit my post with saying ?

i DID state some facts as i remembered them . i thought IT was common knowledge that che acted as a diplomat and that he WAS the one that talked with the u.s.s.r. to get the missiles into cuba . same with the way he treated people he felt betrayed him or in some cases couldn't live up his ideals .

I always read between the lines, my sweet home skillet

You stated your thoughts and I stated my thoughts on your thoughts. Che was not that much actively involved in Soviet relations. Not to say he wasnt at all of course! After the revolution was had, he traveled to other places. It was Fidel who was mostly involved with the U.S.S.R.

Like I said, he wasnt Jesus. He was very defiant, bold, and maybe a little cruel. But its ok. You dont have to be liked by everyone you know.

I mean, he was a guerilla fighter, not mother Theresa. He said once that once oppressive forces have come to maintain power, the rules of peace are already considered broken.

His famous words:

"I know you have come to kill me. Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man."

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

hey is it just me or does anyone else think that without her glasses sarah palin is a bit minging ??

[touriquet2001]

lmao

like i said you're reading to much into it this time .

as for che and the u.s.s.r. ... i don't know if he was or not . i do know some people say he was . after fidel took over he traveled to new york and spoke at the u.n. among other places , as a diplomat for cuba . that is a matter of record chitown .

some people say that because the u.s.s.r. took their missiles out of cuba led to his leaving cuba . and his turning to china to help him later .

i really don't know enough about him to like or dislike him . at one point in my life i thought he was an interesting figure .

[theDarkOne]

Originally Posted by MADDOGMCMANAMAN

hey is it just me or does anyone else think that without her glasses sarah palin is a bit minging ??

Hey Mad Dog
i had to look up what minging meant.This is what it said...
" unattractive or repulsive; unclean or dirty "
Thats a new word for me,damn this thread is teaching me new stuff all the time.
I have to say Palin is the best looking Politician i have ever seen but thats not saying much.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

lmao

like i said you're reading to much into it this time .

as for che and the u.s.s.r. ... i don't know if he was or not . i do know some people say he was . after fidel took over he traveled to new york and spoke at the u.n. among other places , as a diplomat for cuba . that is a matter of record chitown .

some people say that because the u.s.s.r. took their missiles out of cuba led to his leaving cuba . and his turning to china to help him later .

i really don't know enough about him to like or dislike him . at one point in my life i thought he was an interesting figure .

Oh yeah, he definitly spoke to the U.N and he was a diplomat. He clashed with Fidel when it came to ideals and economic planning, so their relationship soured a little bit. He was a Marxist but his thought more imbedded in the Chinese ideal (I believe, Mao respected Stalin as a great leader, and the later Premier of Russia and his party opposed Stalin's ideals and his actions before.) So his views were a bit of a clash of ideology, and went against the interest of the Soviet Union at that time, and Fidel supported the Soviet Union whole heartedly. He was just a man who had to self-actualize, live up to his full-potential. Thats why he went to other nations in an attempt to liberate them and aid in their conflicts.

He is a very interesting figure indeed. He is a very romantic figure definitely.

[touriquet2001]

Originally Posted by theDarkOne

Hey Mad Dog
i had to look up what minging meant.This is what it said...
" unattractive or repulsive; unclean or dirty "
Thats a new word for me,damn this thread is teaching me new stuff all the time.
I have to say Palin is the best looking Politician i have ever seen but thats not saying much.

maybe the best ?

http://www.stanleyid.govoffice2.com/...414E3F4CEE1%7D

[MARADONA]

Che was't into the Soviet Union...and he had nothing to do with those missiles...this is proven by facts.
Stalin was a great son of bitch...for sure...since his wife died...he become a demon...
we know that, but this is another story...beh you can like the comunism or not...
but you can't confuse the Che with Stalin...you know it's like to confuse the day with the night...

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by Noir

Guess it is best to just quote Che himself:

Noir these are facts? I never said he was against Stalin...since he couldn't be against him...
he wans't crazy you know...if you know the history you will know why he licked his ass...

[touriquet2001]

Originally Posted by MARADONA

Che was't into the Soviet Union...and he had nothing to do with those missiles...this is proven by facts.
Stalin was a great son of bitch...for sure...since his wife died...he become a demon...
we know that, but this is another story...beh you can like the comunism or not...
but you can't confuse the Che with Stalin...you know it's like to confuse the day with the night...

as i said i don't know how big of a role he played . but he did play a role with the missiles . as to how big of an one some people say it was quite significant as were his dealings with the u.s.s.r. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

Guevara played a key role in bringing to Cuba the Soviet nuclear-armed ballistic missiles that precipitated the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962. During an interview with the British Communist newspaper The Daily Worker a few weeks after the crisis, Guevara still fuming, stated that if the missiles had been under Cuban control, they would have fired them off.[69] Sam Russell, the British correspondent who spoke to Guevara at the time came away with "mixed feelings", calling him "a warm character" and "clearly a man of great intelligence", but "crackers from the way he went on about the missiles."

http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio...e_guevara.html

He is made Minister for Industry in 1961, becomes increasingly hostile towards US interests in the Cuban economy, strengthens relationship with USSR. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, Che advocates nuclear confrontation.

http://www.ttrp.co.uk/index.php?opti...=170&Itemid=35

In 1964, Che went to the Soviet Union to celebrate the 47th anniversary of the October Revolution and then went to address the UN General Assembly in New York. In 1965, he travelled a lot in Africa, meeting leaders like Nasser in Eqypt and the President of Algeria, and was involved in an unsuccessful campaign in Congo. While most of England was obsessed by the World Cup in 1966, Guevara was training Bolivian guerrillas in Cuba and, in November, he arrived in Bolivia to join up with other would-be insurgents.

i could provide more , just as i could provide sources that say raul castro had the biggest role in getting the missiles into cuba

[MARADONA]

Yes it's true...even today we have people who support the Stalinism...obviously these people are insane...
Stalin was a crazy fanatic...El Che knows it but he couldn't speak the truth and go against him...beh he wasn't a suicidal
he couldn't do this for his "pueblo" and for hismelf too! El Che makes some mistakes and he paied with his own life.
But for me...even if he wasn't perfect...he was a great man and he had nothing to do with Stalin and the second war.
He was a brillant person...he knews what it was going to happens with the capitalism...
he had clear in his head that the capitalism was wrong...in fact it increased the crevice betweens us and the third world...
he was scare by this eventuality and he had all the rights to feel in this way...just to look to the world now.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

as i said i don't know how big of a role he played . but he did play a role with the missiles . as to how big of a one some people say it was quite significant as were his dealings with the u.s.s.r. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara



http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio...e_guevara.html



http://www.ttrp.co.uk/index.php?opti...=170&Itemid=35



i could provide more , just as i could provide sources that say raul castro had the biggest role in getting the missiles into cuba

He was a fighter never deny it...and i never denied he had weapons...
before i was talking of russian missiles...and of the second war...beh he had nothing to do with that shit.
He was a man with great values...not a cruel bastard...like Stalin or Hitler.

[MARADONA]

Beh to me he had no chances to "save the world"...he had not enough power for make it.
The capitalism won...we know that...but well i can't tell you it's cool...yes for us it's cool...
but for the 70% of the people is not. We will never know the truth...just look to Castro...what he is become...
i don't feel so wow when i think about that...and i want to be clear about something that is not related to this discussion
...in the recent past i posted few pics with Castro and Maradona...beh it was just for fun...
for me Castro is a real monster...and it's very sad to see that in Cuba the population is still with him.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by Noir

Well the modern way capitalism works might be only few decades away from it's destruction. The greed powering the current system has been eating away natural resources in an accelerating rate and when this is combined to the corruption of nature and the vast overpopulation of Earth; the picture these issues paint together about the future is not a pretty one...

Guess only time will tell this for sure.

By the way since you were referring to "saving the world" his attempts were to create a chainreaction which would have resulted in all of the less fortunate people having joined the fight for a better tomorrow. It's not like he expected to do it all on himself.

Yes i know we are close to the end...sad but true...
About El Che...beh he wasn't crazy...he had not the power for change the world...
yes he tryed to do something...and he failed...but at least he didn't turn out in an asshole like Mao...
he followed his vision...without cares of the risks...he had big guts no doubt about that!

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by anders

http://rapeboard.com/attachment.php?...1&d=1223045601

Nice to see you here anders!

[menace]

Originally Posted by MARADONA

Beh to me he had no chances to "save the world"...he had not enough power for make it.
The capitalism won...we know that...but well i can't tell you it's cool...yes for us it's cool...
but for the 70% of the people is not. We will never know the truth...just look to Castro...what he is become...
i don't feel so wow when i think about that...and i want to be clear about something that is not related to this discussion
...in the recent past i posted few pics with Castro and Maradona...beh it was just for fun...
for me Castro is a real monster...and it's very sad to see that in Cuba the population is still with him.

Let me give you a hint of what communism was like for the working man: if you wanted pork, bananas or oranges you had to order it from the state run union. Then two months later, you could go claim it.
What to eat in the meantime? Industrial food of the lowest quality, since all farmers were either forced to become goverment workers on their own land, handing over all their produce to the goverment factories. That or get shot as class enemies.
Ideas on improving that system? Many people in prison had them. Before being jailed as reactionary elements.

Before you get ideas about explaining to me "how it was in reality" be warned: I lived under a communist dictatorship for a third of my lifetime. Any of you try that?!

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by menace

Let me give you a hint of what communism was like for the working man: if you wanted pork, bananas or oranges you had to order it from the state run union. Then two months later, you could go claim it.
What to eat in the meantime? Industrial food of the lowest quality, since all farmers were either forced to become goverment workers on their own land, handing over all their produce to the goverment factories. That or get shot as class enemies.
Ideas on improving that system? Many people in prison had them. Before being jailed as reactionary elements.

Before you get ideas about explaining to me "how it was in reality" be warned: I lived under a communist dictatorship for a third of my lifetime. Any of you try that?!

El Che wasn't a dictator...i'm sorry you lived under this bad situation...
but you can't confuse Ernesto "Che" Guevara with other "communists"...
you see not every country under this "system" has experimented the same situation...
who is in charge will makes the difference...you can be in a communist state or not...
unfortunatelly when you are the slave of a dictator...he can be a fascist or a communist...
you will going to take it in the ass anyway...this is how it works...sad but true...
unfortunatelly Noir is right, in general live under a communist state is just awful...yes it's true.
But it's not because the communism sucks ass...is because the people are bad...this is the problem.
The communism can be interpretated and used in different ways....just look to the story of Mao...
he was an authentic hero...he saved his country from the opression of a bad dictator...he risk his life for do that...
but after few years...he become exactly like the people he destroyed...this is not the communism...

[rasputin]

The problem with capitalism is the capitalists.

The problem with communism is communism.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by MARADONA

for me Castro is a real monster...and it's very sad to see that in Cuba the population is still with him.

this doesnt make sense. You see Castro has a monster and Che as a hero. To me, they are both heros and great liberators for their people. Castro admitted that Che was among the most important people in his life after thier relationship strayed a bit. They had similiar ideals and similiar (while not identical) hopes and plans for thier people.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney

this doesnt make sense. You see Castro has a monster and Che as a hero. To me, they are both heros and great liberators for their people. Castro admitted that Che was among the most important people in his life after thier relationship strayed a bit. They had similiar ideals and similiar (while not identical) hopes and plans for thier people.

Chi i'm very disappointed by Castro...i know the times are changed...but to me he ruined everything he has done before.
For his fortune El Che is dead...otherwise he will be in another place...i know it sounds extreme but i can't excuse him.