"Too real to be staged" and the likes ...

[cryptic]

I saw a cartoon one time that depicted a man and woman standing on a street corner. There's a sign on the corner that says "No machete juggling." The man says to the woman, "Suddenly I have an urge to juggle machetes."

*laughs*
Yeah, that probably about sums it up.

[RapeU]

It was a good idea to remove it. Watching fake stuff on the internet is good, but once something is passed off as real, whether or not it is, deserves to be taken seriously and removed.

[Wendel]

Of course it was the right decision to remove the video.
But you must remember that we all want to eat from the tree of knowledge.
We know it is wrong, but we will still peak given the chance.
It does not mean we agree with it, it only means we have a odd curiosity.

THAT is why there should be moderators.

Good call.

[Tanya]

I wonder how you decide if something is "too real to be staged" though?. My first real life roleplay was so realistic, i had real tears, he was a proffectional acor. I bet if we had videod it it would have looked very very real

[Sternenlied]

Well ...
First of all I'm really glad your roleplays get that intense and realistic. However most of them (especially when recorded) have an "aritifial" feel to them. Not necessarily when done but on film - as have most rape (fantasy) videos.
I agree there's always the chance a movie might be fake - even if appearing all too real. So the question if we shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt is appropriate.
I think however in these cases we shouldn't. In my opinion it is better to delete one fake movie among countless before we allow one single real movie to stay on our board.
Imagine you have been raped and you stumble upon a video of your rape on this board ... downloaded numerous times by people now having fun (most likely even masturbating) with the most traumatising and horrible moment you probably ever experienced in your entire life. Wouldn't that upset, eventually even hurt you very much?
I know I would feel that way...
So I just assume by deleting it nothing is lost if the movie is fake but much is gained if it is real.

[Tanya]

oh of coarse. Better to delete one you are unsure about..

[MasterWaylander]

You have done EXACTLY the right thing...well done.
Not only on moral grounds but also on legal grounds.....start posting real rape and the 'AUTHORITIES' will be down on this site and then start tracking ALL of the people registered here.......see how some of you would like that.
This is a fantasy site.....keep it that way
MW

[Gio]

Maybe it WAS staged, but with literally thousands of clip SURELY staged and safe, why to put at risk the site for just one clip? We are like walking on a narrow cliff here...

Gio

[Tanya]

Originally Posted by Debaser

Shes not much to look at either!

Um so??? I'd say that makes it MORE of a chance its real because youd think people filming fake stuff would use more attractive people

[Sternenlied]

I was wondering about that one myself.
So an (in your opinion) ugly or unattractive woman can't be raped? It lessens the chance? This isn't the movies where the rape victims are played by hot actresses to get the attention of male viewers ...

[Sternenlied]

I just fail to see why that should make any difference ...
Her being unattractive to your eyes may make it more real?
If it is as obviously fake as you claim it is shouldn't they just try to make it more realistic in general?
Doesn't matter anyway ... the discussion about it being deleted is over and doesn't need to be renewed.

[Sierra]

With all due respect, Debaser, I'm not sure why it's of any interest that one video of (by your description) an unattractive woman isn't on the rape boards. It's available elsewhere and always has been.

I know it seems like hypocracy and I suppose in some ways it is, but it's a healthy hypocracy.

In order to give ourselves permission to enjoy our fantasies, it is absolutely necessary for us to draw a bright line between fantasy rape and real rape, build a fence and firmly lock the gate. Watching a very realistic film like that comes very close to knocking down the fence and blurring the line. That makes us uncomfortable.

I speak for myself only, but I know others feel the same.

[EvilJ]

Originally Posted by Gio

Maybe it WAS staged, but with literally thousands of clip SURELY staged and safe, why to put at risk the site for just one clip? We are like walking on a narrow cliff here...

Gio

I think it's staged and I had yet to hear a real argument on why NOT to show it until this one.... the "literally thousands of clip[s] SURELY staged and safe" part, not the "narrow cliff" part. I agree that there are many, many excellent staged movies of rape- better and less controversial ones than this one- so why make even a significant portion of any community uncomfortable by insisting on showing this one?

As for the "narrow cliff" argument... if we start fearing persecution on our sexual fantasies while allowing others to watch the same thing on their sites, we're just greasing a slippery slope. One that will end in our own demise as communities (although I wonder if my bravado would bear quite so much swagger if I RAN a site).

To be clearer: I agree that certain clips should not be shown on certain sites. And the communities should decide which ones. This is one where EVERY force community I belong to has given a thumbs down to.

[Rogue]

Wow, we haven't seen you in over 2 years EvilJ.

[somedude]

I've noticed many old time members crawling out of the woodwork Rogue...maybe it's a trend

[Ace_McGuire]

Originally Posted by lilwing

You have banned one thread? What about the hundreds of other videos posted on this website? Maybe they can be classified as 'fake' but that does not mean that the people taken part in such videos are not exploited. Just because something is classed as 'legal' doesn't mean it is morally correct, I believe that in one way or another the majority of 'models' taking part in this genre of pornography are forced. They have been forced into a industry which thrives on the exploitation of disadvantaged women. Has it not struck anyone that the majority of 'fake' rape videos are from Eastern Europe or Russian? I have done exstensive charity work in these areas and it is a fact that women are forced into prositution and pornography, selling their bodies for less than £3 an hour. Fantasy rape videos by extention are nothing more than exploitation and the threads just as worthy to be taken down. If these fantast rape videos did not have an audience then women would not be exploited in such a degrading way, no matter how you justify it this type of pornography is extremely damaging.

If people see an audience for fake rape porn, then more and more women will be forced into scenarios to which they will not enjoy nor agree with. Fantasy rape IS in actual fact real because these women are forced and exploited.

Thoughts?

Well, how do you define moral? Honestly, to a lot of people pornography isn't moral. It's not uncommon for the people who view this material to experience feelings of guilt.
But, with the tons of "fake" material here, come on, it's a flipping "rape" forum here. Of course, "rape" being a term used loosely as most (I gather) of the members here don't want to participate in actual rape (either on the giving or receiving end), we still enjoy the material for reasons most of us don't even know.

Also, for models who are being "exploited" at what point is it exploitation? I never thought of the whole rape models being in Eastern Europe having to do with them being "forced" into anything although I've been somewhat aware of the fact. Many times, the reason why this genre of pornography is produced in any nation is due to it having a large enough market for it there.

We can't assume every woman in pornography is forced against her will, because even in third world countries, most of the time that isn't the case. Even if these girls are forced into the pornography market there's usually a larger market where the female characters are willing and thus the porn model's "captors" would probably make more profit in that sector than in the rape fantasy sector.

Because, of this, it only stands to assume that 99% of the material involving rape fantasy is acted out, and all participants are willing members. To assume that these women are being exploited even though these women chose to do perform in this kind of pornographic material is to assume that a woman is inherently incapable of independent thought.

This is I guess why one view of Feminism sees it being okay for women to chose occupations involving pornography, erotic dance or performance arts, and prostitution since the idea of a woman having a right to her body might apply to such job fields.

[taboolover]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

After reading the mentioned thread and finding my PM-box flooded with messages asking for the links and I finally decided to delete the thread completely.
A few things I wanted to let you know however:
I am really glad to see at least a few members support my decisions and I was disgusted by the large number of people who so desperately wanted to see the video!
Don't even start arguing how stupid someone would be to post a real rape video on an internet board (enough people are that stupid) or this video might have been one hell of a fake. If it was - so what? There are hundreds of rape fantasy videos availabe on the board and I think we all can live without one of them. If it was real ... well, I guess you can all imagine what I think of people who want to see it anyway (or especially because it is).
My first decision to delete the links only was driven by the hope people might see HOW we think about a subject like this and WHY we do so but obviously I
was misguided. Because I didn't know for sure we were dealing with a real rape filmed here I didn't warn the posting member.
So for future reference: I will continue to delete any threads containing such links. Furthermore I will give a warning to the posting members as well as anyone else asking for such links! If you think it might be real rape, don't post it, it's as simple as that!
The forum rules are quite clear on real rape, no discussion required!

To the author of this thread, thank you for following your morals and standing up for what you believe in.

[Ace_McGuire]

Originally Posted by Debaser

Well, to dog-face guy, taboolover has a point. Even if you don't agree with it, she being one of the moderators here, has a right to do this. Especially, since the goal of the moderators' job is to ensure that members have a safe environment in which they can participate in the forum, which ultimately leads to maintaining the membership size.
This benefits all or at least most of us that sterenlied did this, because we want to keep a certain kind of membership base here. If you scared all the women here, and membership started to dwindle to a handful of really perverted guys, next thing you know you'll be having real rapists post videos of their real rapes and the likes. Then, it'll be only a matter of time before the Feds come by and start question people who have registered here.

I myself would like to think this kind sexual fantasy preference here is, at least somewhat, a healthy one to have. I think that outlook would be shot-down if this forum degraded to that level. At least knowing that some women share these fantasies takes away some of the guilt of being aroused to begin with. So, good work Stern. Honestly, I kind of wanted to see it myself after seeing the discussion on this thread, but it's probably better off I didn't and it's the right thing to do if a sizable group of members complain about it being posted here.

[kane66]

Real Rape is a CRIME period,if someone had a Video of you being Raped in a Horrible Violent Manner.you would feel Different about the Whole World seeing it in Video when you are the Person being Raped it is a Whole Different Experience People.Movies and Fantasy are one Thing real Life is Different Real Rape will get you 50 Years in Prison where you might get Raped.You did the Right thing in Deleting the Link.

[Night.Bane]

The noob chimes in:

In all the vids I've downloaded and/or seen (hundreds, to be sure) I've seen only two that made me think, "That might be real." One I believe was the subject of the deleted thread in question--middle eastern setting, etc. I happen to think that one was staged, for whatever that's worth. The other vid I'm pretty sure was real, it hit on a P2P download and I deleted it from my archive. It's clear from the premise of the site that the thread needed to be deleted. Kudos to that, for both moral and legal reasons.

I'm always amazed at how 'normal' most rape/force fetishists are; I have no interest in associating with guys who are 'real rapists.' That's not a fetish--that's misogyny. Or worse.

That said, there is a very weird juxtaposition of accepting 'force fantasies' and some of the video offerings (Slap Happy, for instance, some of those girls really take it on the chin) floating around out there on the 'net while climbing up high and taking a principled view about what constitutes 'real rape.' More than once, I've seen girls on some of those videos who I'm sure were being forced to perform against their will. The dude's saying, "Fifteen seconds more," and in the meantime he's just going to town, pressing, pressing, and pressing some more, seeing how far he can push her before she says no. Is it rape? That's actually the wrong question. The correct question: is it legal? These girls have a contract and, presumably, a safe word or some other 'out' they can use while performing. I don't want to get too specific, but there's an oral abuse video where the girl has a tiny stream of tears that starts about halfway through and it is more than clear that she is decidedly unhappy about what's happening. To me, that's almost rape--except that it's legal. Brandon Iron, the guy behind the Slap Happy videos, has said that some of the performers he got were very unhappy about the end result--but they all cashed their checks. It's legal, they provided ID, and they could (presumably) stop performing at any time. But if you know they need the money, and you can 'read them' and tell that they'll put up with whatever you do and not complain over much (it's shocking how many of the girls in porn have a past history of child sexual abuse, making them more susceptible to this), and you push push push push push, you get a result that really isn't all that different from rape--except that it's legal, it comports with 18 U.S.C. Section 2257, so nobody can go after you. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed some of those offerings immensely, I just find it slightly amusing that somehow it's ok to partake and enjoy a particularly brutal video where the subjects are clearly being exploited and are extremely uncomfortable with what they're doing so long as it meets the demands of 18 U.S.C. Section 2257, while drawing a distinction between other videos of foreign origin that may or may not be 'real,' where the girl is not being subject to anything close to the same kind of treatment, but the rigors of 18 U.S.C. Section 2257 are not met.

I'm not too conflicted about enjoying the one while rejecting the other, by the way. I've said before, the difference between a swimsuit model, a Playboy model, a porn star, and a prostitute is actually (in my view, at least) not really that big. They're all exploiting their own bodies, getting paid to perform. It's merely a question of how far they're willing to go. An eighteen year-old willing to suck cock on camera for $400 and get insulted is certainly working harder than another eighteen year-old modeling the slinkiest of bikinis (tweaking her nipples between shots so the all-important "nip shot" can be featured prominently), but they aren't that far removed from each other ethically. It's a moral construct that tells us one is better than the other; as a practical matter, both are playing to desires of the flesh.

Again, just to clarify--real rapists hate women and need to be rejected out of hand. Any video known to be real has to be discarded; any video that is substantially questionable should be thrown out as well. Videos that comport with accepted legal standards are perfectly acceptable (indeed, enjoyed, although some go too far even for my extravagant tastes). There's plenty of gray area in between...