Martin McGuinness, RIP or rot in hell?

[grants70]

I had a look at the IMDB review and all the actor and producer names seem to be Irish. It gets a 7.4, so could be worth watching. It's not every day that 38 men escape from the most secure prison in Europe.

[FuckingRotter]

Badly.

Bit of bad news for Northern Ireland. Bombardier, which employs 4200 people in Belfast have been hit with a 200% duty tariff on airplane exports to the USA. Apparently US commerce regulators view bailouts received from UK and Canadian governments as a subsidy that gives Bombardier an unfair advantage over Boeing. There is a counter argument that Boeings massive defence contracts with the US government is effectively acting as a subsidy.

A final judgement on this will be made in February. In the mean time, people in Belfast are understandably nervous. It is reckoned that a further 9000 jobs are supported in the supply chain, mostly in Northern Ireland, as well as other businesses that benefit from those people being in work.

[FuckingRotter]

New news today is that one of a series of Royal Navy frigates to be built in the next few years will be named HMS Belfast. The original HMS Belfast, built at Harland and Wolfe shipyard in Belfast in 1938, now a floating museum on the Thames near Tower Bridge, will be renamed to reflect this development.

Just a fucking shame that the new boat can't be built at Harland and Wolfe out of common fucking courtesy!

[tom8517]

Harland and Wolfe was a key cog in the old order in the north. employment there ensured a stable, if not comfortable life for a man and his family. Unfortunately where someone chose to spend an hour on Sunday morning determined whether or not they got a job there.

[tom8517]

given it will take a few years to complete the ship, perhaps this would be a more appropriate name for the new owners for the Belfast, " i mBéal Feirste". It would be a nice going away present from the Royal navy.

[FuckingRotter]

That makes no sense at all.

[tom8517]

I'll give you that one, two bottles of merlot don't make for lucid posting

[grants70]

Originally Posted by tom8517

I'll give you that one, two bottles of merlot don't make for lucid posting

Yeah I've been there myself more than once, drinking and posting. Up this far north (especially in Winter) there is fuck all else to do. When it snows, we can't get out to the bar so we have to drink at home. A few beers by an open fire, laptop to hand. It's a recipe for embarrassment.

[FuckingRotter]

A good drunk poster should have no shame!

[tom8517]

Look bright side, now you know how to say
the " The Belfast" in Irish.

[bigal]

Originally Posted by tom8517

Look bright side, now you know how to say
the " The Belfast" in Irish.

But probably only when drunk. Otherwise it's a mouthful of double-dutch to me.
It's an interesting thread all the same.

[tom8517]

It's best learn to
Irish when drunk, it follows none of the conventions an English speaker finds when learning French or Spamish

[tom8517]

I learned a bit of Irish as a child. But it is a very difficult is very tough one to master if you start from scratch. Nothing like learning French or Spanish

[FuckingRotter]

1. I only may know how to spell it, saying it might be some thing else altogether. 2. I wrote "may" because I am not interested enough to go back and read the post again.

Originally Posted by tom8517

Look bright side, now you know how to say
the " The Belfast" in Irish.

[FuckingRotter]

As prosecutions of soldiers involved in the Bloody Sunday riot of 1973 are being considered, it has emerged that new evidence uncovered by the Crown Prosecution Service has led to a recommendation that two former IRA members also be prosecuted for their part in the disturbances.

[grants70]

Originally Posted by FuckingRotter

.... it has emerged that new evidence uncovered by the Crown Prosecution Service has led to a recommendation that two former IRA members also be prosecuted for their part in the disturbances.

They probably threw stones at the poor soldiers who were armed only with rifles.

[FuckingRotter]

It is true that none of the rioters shot by the army were armed. Those were rioters though, not necessarily members of the IRA. Martin McGuinness by his own admission was there and armed that day. It is established that the army came under sniper fire, though nobody seems to know if this started before or after the army started shooting.

The "massacre" itself was actually a series of incidences, rather than a mass opening fire on a crowd. Perhaps some people reading have a vision in their mind of small stones being thrown, but what usually happens in Britain is that paving slabs are lifted and smashed in to large chunks, then thrown at the police. Or army as it used to be in Ulster. Some of the stones were being rained down on the "poor soldiers" from inside an abandoned building.

It is worth noting the events than led up to Bloody Sunday. Violence had become so common place, pretty much a daily occurrence, that all marches and parades had been banned in the province. Despite this, another protest march had taken place two weeks before which ended in the inevitable stone throwing and retaliatory beatings. Of course, none of this, or the actions of protestors on the day, justify those soldiers opening fire. It probably does help explain why they would though.

The news report I read about the IRA members being recommended for prosecution, didn't name them, or describe what they had done. I seriously doubt if the CPS are concerned with a couple of stone-throwing youths 45 years after the event though.

[tom8517]

I've posted a number of times in favor of a full amnesty for anything before the good Friday accords. For all, the IRA, the security forces, even the loyalists, I get the argument of families seeking closure, but prosecuting elderly soldiers or guerillas isn't going to make them feel any better

[FuckingRotter]

Amnesty. Yeah.... Problem is, some paramilitaries benefitted from organised crime. Some British soldiers disobeyed orders and sent inexperienced youths to shoot stupid stone throwing boys. Some paramilitaries terrorised the communities they claimed to represent and defend, and deliberately and cynically attempted to inflame the situation. What ever the arguments for and against Irish independence are, I don't think any one should be immune from prosecution. I think the prosecution needs to be comprehensive, and the punishment fitting.

[tom8517]

It's all well and good to hold everyone accounted, but some of the incident in question are 40 years old. The pain is already voicing concerns about the amount of resources they have to devote to "legacy" investigations