Raped Celebs true and rumors

Originally Posted by jwham

Molly is correct that this thread treads close to the line of rule # 2. NO real rape! We are a fantasy only site.

Molly and those of you opposed to this thread certainly make compelling arguments against it, one of the most compelling arguments against this thread was made by Soulless … “I liken this thread to social behaviour that any normal individual would consider unacceptable but which is not by definition unlawful. It goes on because the authorities have no legal course of action to resort to in order to stop it.”

This argument could be made by “Any normal individual” about the RB site as a whole. I think the vast majority of real life rape victims could and would use all the valid arguments made by those opposed to this thread against this site and other forced sex sites in general. Most “Normal Individuals” and real life rape victims would liken all of our fantasies of rape as socially unacceptable behavior, and would argue there is no public venue acceptable for them.

Just playing Devils advocate, but if I were to chose sides, because of the dangers of censorship I agree with Sternenlied...

the bold above is why i've stated that i am a victim again. he misrepresented rape victims... also, i feel that my understanding of the reality helps give me perspective on the subject.

i do not feel that the real rape thread is bad, i just find it in poor taste, as it's asking for people to masturbate to your pain... but that is a personal opinion. i can't do anything about it being up. nor would i. that is the place for those conversations. i can simply choose to not go in. i just strongly believe that this thread is wrong for the reasons that i've already stated. i don't believe i censorship as a rule... but there is a place for everything. if this thread is better suited in the other section, than, i ask again, why not move it?

i am not asking for a fight. if no one cares about the thoughts of a single protester, than just post around me folks, i've said my piece.

Originally Posted by Beardy

I think that The Real Rape Thread is a great one, and people who post there are very respectful with those victims like me who have shared our experiences. In my case, I have felt better sharing my feelings about my attempted rape and I have read another women experiences that have made me feel that I´m not a weird one fantasizing about being raped after an attack.

i respect that it helps you, which is why i would never protest it's existence. it's not for me. i feel that it's too exposing, and allows the wrong people privy to personal things. it's important to talk about those feelings, i just personally wouldn't do it here.

Originally Posted by jwham

However, I will not tar and feather a board member who has merely posted (with or without pictures) what already is public knowledge of a celebrity’s rape, a rape made public by the celebrities themselves. Maybe these celebrities made their rapes public knowledge to heighten awareness of the real atrocities of rape, what better place to echo their message then in this type of forum?

I think in a controversial thread such as this one it is necessary for the Moderators to separate the wheat from the shaft, and I think Sternenlied has done an admirable in deleting those posts that did not contribute to this thread in a positive way, I see no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

this type of forum??? this is a forum where i go to masturbate to rape porn. this forum is where lots of people go to masturbate to rape. when you introduce REAL RAPE DISCUSSION on a board where people go to masturbate, it's a little creepy for some people.

i am not saying anything about stern's abilities. she has done well. i have no complaints. i am stating my convictions, not judging her. i thought i made that clear.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

You like to underline your arguments by stating you're the victim of rape.
How does this influence your argument? Don't take this the wrong way but being the victim of rape doesn't give your point any more weight.
I am sorry you had to experience the ordeal of being rape but - objectively speaking - it has no bearing on the discussion at hand. I understand how it certainly does influence your point of view but that's it.

Anyway ... since you do not care about this thread being about celebrities you're bringing up an essential point - ethics. Those aren't absolute.
If you feel uncomfortable being confronted by real rape on a rape fantasy board I don't mind. Neither would anybody else I presume.

Many members however do not agree with you. Many victims of rape have decided to share their experiences with the community for their own, numerous reasons. By their own free will, their own choice. Are you asking us to take down the real rape thread as well? Ban everything dealing with the issue of real rape?

Obviously your understanding of "ethical" isn't shared by all rape victims here, neither is yours of "social accountability". The real rape thread has been welcomed and used by many people so evidently those people do not share your concerns in general.

So give it a rest. If an overwhelming lot of members opposed the idea of talking about the rape experiences of people not members of the board (celebrities or not) I might actually agree to honour those wishes but as long as our members want their own stories to be told here that's not your decision to make.

Like it or not - while we do not condone rape at all we still acknowledge its existence. Being a board to enjoy rape fantasy doesn't allow us to be blind to the real world. I will certainly never prohibit victims to tell their story.
We - being the moderators and the members who created and participated in the real rape thread - made a decision to create a place to talk about reality outside fantasy.

Just accept it.

when did i say to pull the entire secton? i have a problem with one thread. i have no problem with the section because i know what's in it, i know that it's well liked... i just won't go in... so there is nothing to deal with, nor is there reason to be defensive. never once, not once did i say pull the entire section, therefore, you just ranted about absolutely nothing relative to the converstion.

as i've made it clear, there is a place for said section. please, actually read what i have to say, instead of just skimming it for examples to tell me off with. all that does it make you look confrontational unwarrented.

either way... i've said my piece, and i am done with this subject, as rb is not a place to express any thoughts and opinions.

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by mollymolotov666

(...) i've said my piece, and i am done with this subject, as rb is not a place to express any thoughts and opinions.

Ah well ... I was actually starting to take you serious.
Until this sad display of being in a huff.
So yes, if you want to play it that way ... simply refrain from expressing your thoughts and opinions.

Either way - leave this thread alone now, I've linked a place to take your arguments above.

you never took me seriously, so don't lie. if you had, you wouldn't be getting defensive at what i've said, even if none of it was at you. this is not a huff, what you are in now is. i've said what i feel, and you've blown me off, not even giving my thoughts a chance. instead of looking at my thoughts objectively, you act like they are personal attacks.

i've done all i can. i've said my piece, so instead of beating a dead dog, i am letting it go. i've nicely said what i had to, and there is nothing left to say, at least for now. otherwise, i would be repeating myself.

[soulless]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Well, no matter the differences of opinion I am as surprised as I am pleased a sensible, reasonable argument has been going on here.

Now:
Concerning quotations about which celebrities some members "wished" were raped - I am not being argumentative now, I am inquiring - where do you (meaning every person involved in this discussion) suggest to draw the line? Should we ban every mention of rape fantasies about people not members of the board? I suppose not.

p.s.:
In any event, the statements that have been quoted by soulless have been checked and deleted, as well as the attached pictures. I agree with them being inappropriate.

Stern,

Thank you for a sensitive, fast and very impartial response. To be honest I feel the real 'problems' related to the thread have now been removed.

As for where to draw the line in future, I understand now having read your post, how difficult this is to decide. I don't profess to know the solution but to just say "I don't know!" seems to me to be passing the buck.

I can see both sides and whilst I did in some respects come to Molly's defence, the fact of the matter is that RB being in existence or not we cannot stop people fantasizing about having sex with our wives, daughters, mothers etc if they see them in the street. I would say that everyone is guilty of looking at someone and thinking "Oh what I'd like to do to him/her!" In that respect the behaviour is in a sense 'normal' however difficult you may find defending that argument with a jealous husband or protective father etc.

To be honest what is the difference of posting a random picture of a girl you find sexually enticing and then writing a rape fantasy story beneath it in which you portray her as a model who gets brutally raped by three black men? No-one would have an issue with that I'm sure, but if you try to correlate that with the thread in question and get judgmental and ethical about it, the difference starts to get devastatingly blurry.

I respect the privacy of the real rape thread. I also think you will find that the posts in there concentrate far less on the details of the rape itself and more on the emotional difficulties that the victims have had to overcome as a result of their experiences. I don't think I have seen any of the victims post up photos of themselves in sexy figure hugging dresses or go into detail about whether their rapists were generously endowed or where they ejaculated etc. I understand Molly not wishing to discuss her personal story in that thread but I think we must also remember that to many, that thread offers anonymity and allows them to speak about things that perhaps they just cannot bring themselves to talk about with people they know. We all fear being judged and no more so than by the people closest to us.

You do bring up an interesting question as to whether our fantasies should be confined to willing members of this site or if openly fantasizing about sex with celebrity or a person we have seen in the street is acceptable? I think here I do agree with Molly. If you find Angelina Jolie 'hot' and fantasize about being one of the men who raped her in the film "Original Sin" I think that is acceptable. Women in general appreciate being found attractive and whilst they may ignore the more sordid details, the fact that this may culminate in men fantasizing about having sex with them is surely an inevitable conclusion. But fantasizing about an actual rape is in my opinion unacceptable. As I said it gets very blurry. Is it now unacceptable for me to fantasize about Karen Mulder because she has been raped?

Bottom line. I think the 'motive' of the post is far more important than the content. This was my issue with this thread. I felt many people's focus was aimed far more at the attractiveness of the victims and the size or number of the rapists, rather than on what the women were attempting to overcome and their bravery in going public.

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by mollymolotov666

you never took me seriously, so don't lie. if you had, you wouldn't be getting defensive at what i've said, even if none of it was at you. this is not a huff, what you are in now is. i've said what i feel, and you've blown me off, not even giving my thoughts a chance. instead of looking at my thoughts objectively, you act like they are personal attacks.

Why is it when I express a different opinion I am not taking you serious? If you feel insulted (obviously you did, sending your "master" to neg rep me) why didn't you say so? In my opinion I was simply trying to highlight other points of view and thought processes that led to decisions made.

Originally Posted by soulless

As for where to draw the line in future, I understand now having read your post, how difficult this is to decide. I don't profess to know the solution but to just say "I don't know!" seems to me to be passing the buck.

That's may be true but it's not bad thing.
You don't necessarily have to offer a solution to point out a problem. "Passing the buck" is what moderators are for as well. We have to deal with problems arising in a forum that members present to us. Some solutions found by us are more satisfying to the members than others.

Originally Posted by soulless

To be honest what is the difference of posting a random picture of a girl you find sexually enticing and then writing a rape fantasy story beneath it in which you portray her as a model who gets brutally raped by three black men? No-one would have an issue with that I'm sure, but if you try to correlate that with the thread in question and get judgmental and ethical about it, the difference starts to get devastatingly blurry.

Exactly.
How about rape fantasies about some celebrities? Countless of those have been posted. Now what if we found out that person has been raped afterwards? Should we delete the posts, exclude those fantasies?
What about male celebrities? We usually approach the real rape subject from the female side? There might be male people out there who have been raped. Female members state what celebrities they find attractive and who they would love to "rape" them. Now maybe those men wouldn't like to mentioned on a rape fantasy board.
The clearer we draw the lines, the harder we make and enforce our rules, more and more freedom of our members to actually enjoy their sexual fetishes gets lost.

Originally Posted by soulless

I understand Molly not wishing to discuss her personal story in that thread but I think we must also remember that to many, that thread offers anonymity and allows them to speak about things that perhaps they just cannot bring themselves to talk about with people they know. We all fear being judged and no more so than by the people closest to us.

So do I.
Anybody who doesn't want to read the Real Rape thead or post their personal story there doesn't have to. I think Sierra - one of the members who decided to share her story in there - made a good point in the Courtroom already.

Originally Posted by soulless

But fantasizing about an actual rape is in my opinion unacceptable. As I said it gets very blurry. Is it now unacceptable for me to fantasize about Karen Mulder because she has been raped?

Now I'll have to "pass the buck". I don't know.
Every person has to make that decision for themselves.
How would you feel if we decided to ban every mention of her now that we know she has been raped for real?

Originally Posted by soulless

Bottom line. I think the 'motive' of the post is far more important than the content. This was my issue with this thread. I felt many people's focus was aimed far more at the attractiveness of the victims and the size or number of the rapists, rather than on what the women were attempting to overcome and their bravery in going public.

As is the case most of times a real rape of an attractive woman is mentioned. I don't fool myself in thinking most male members posting in this thread simply want to mention a rape has occurred.
I don't agree with several subjects being discussed, I don't like some threads and I certainly don't need many topics on RB. But RB is not my personal site, it's not about me.
I simply acknowledge the fact there will always be members with fantasies, issues, subjects, etc ... I find more or less repulsive. That's a respect I need to have when being part of any community. Nothing else was my intention to convey in here.

[TwistedMaster]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Why is it when I express a different opinion I am not taking you serious? If you feel insulted (obviously you did, sending your "master" to neg rep me) why didn't you say so? In my opinion I was simply trying to highlight other points of view and thought processes that led to decisions made.

She didn't ask me to do anything, and in fact I've tried to stay out of this. The reason I did that was because you've been constantly rude, and as I said in the message, that last post was deliberate provocation. Frankly I think this whole thing is just stupid and shameful.

i am actually amused that he neged you... i just found out about it, hehe.

it's obvious that you don't take me seriously. i've tried to have, at least, an interesting debate about the flip side of a thread, and at most, to enlighten and try to give perspective. the fact that you are acting oblivous to your behavior makes me laugh. you haven't even tried to debate or even read what i have to say, judging from your long, unrelated rants. i've never said anything about deleting any threads or sections, and yet you felt the need to go on and on about how i said i did. at least read before you post a response. you have no idea how stupid NOT doing that makes you look.

you just like to fight, not debate or state opinions... i feel like i've gone to play chess, and ended up in a ring of monkeys throwing shit. it's a waste of time.

[RavishAGirl]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

How about rape fantasies about some celebrities? Countless of those have been posted. Now what if we found out that person has been raped afterwards? Should we delete the posts, exclude those fantasies?

I'm actually troubled by those threads, too... The 'Celebrities you'd like to rape' thread is about actual people, specific people who are named and who conceivably could even read the thread (since it is public access) and be deeply hurt by it. I think fantasies should be given free reign, so long as they do no harm... once you start fantasizing publically about what you would like to do to a public figure, that has the potential for harm. That's off topic, though.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

The clearer we draw the lines, the harder we make and enforce our rules, more and more freedom of our members to actually enjoy their sexual fetishes gets lost.

I recognize this. At the same time, a compendium of 'times that a real celebrity has been really raped' is horrifying on a fantasy board. Just my opinion.

I am not a mod (in fact I'm very new here) and it isn't up to me, but I can understand why some were incensed.

//Ravish

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by mollymolotov666

i am actually amused that he neged you... i just found out about it, hehe.

it's obvious that you don't take me seriously. i've tried to have, at least, an interesting debate about the flip side of a thread, and at most, to enlighten and try to give perspective. the fact that you are acting oblivous to your behavior makes me laugh. you haven't even tried to debate or even read what i have to say, judging from your long, unrelated rants. i've never said anything about deleting any threads or sections, and yet you felt the need to go on and on about how i said i did. at least read before you post a response. you have no idea how stupid NOT doing that makes you look.

you just like to fight, not debate or state opinions... i feel like i've gone to play chess, and ended up in a ring of monkeys throwing shit. it's a waste of time.

How many times exactly are you going to post something negligible simply because I don't share your opinion only to state you're done now before you come back again?
Talking about looking stupid ...
Listen, if you're incapable of comprehending what I said that's alright, I can't blame people for being ... slow. But I asked you twice already to move your argument to another thread, an appeal you constantly ignore (didn't you claim to have read my posts?) so this will be the third and final time.
If you have anything to add, please feel free to do so but keep it out of this thread.

[soulless]

As for where to draw the line in future, I understand now having read your post, how difficult this is to decide. I don't profess to know the solution but to just say "I don't know!" seems to me to be passing the buck.

I just wanted to clarify here (as I thought re-reading my post that it might have come off the wrong way), what I meant was that if "I" said "I don't know!" then "I" would be passing the buck. I wasn't suggesting that moderators were duty bound to offer a solution as clearly to expect this would be very unreasonable.

We are, as you have stated, a community and discussions like this (argumentative though they may become) are important, as we all have a role to play in expressing our opinions and trying to ensure that we please as many people as we can, as much of the time as we can.

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by soulless

I just wanted to clarify here (as I thought re-reading my post that it might have come off the wrong way), what I meant was that if "I" said "I don't know!" then "I" would be passing the buck. I wasn't suggesting that moderators were duty bound to offer a solution as clearly to expect this would be very unreasonable.

I know what you meant, that's why I said that's what we moderators are here for as well - the be to ones the buck is passed to. I am not saying we always do find the best possible solution but I we are the ones who have to try.

[TwistedMaster]

Stern, I apologize if my previous post came off as insulting toward you, because it really wasn't my intention. I do respect the work you do here, and appreciate it. My only issue was the fact that I felt you were attacking Molly in response to one of my actions. My posting was overly harsh, as it was written in haste and in anger.

So again, my apologies.

[Sternenlied]

Thank you, Twisted Master - a very forthcoming gesture and I honestly appreciate it.

[Uncle Al]

Concetta Rosa Maria Franconero or Connie Francis was raped back in 1974.

[Tanya]

Its good I think that the pictures were removed.

Also just curious why some celebrities were deleted ? or was that an accident? :

[BeastBehindYou]

I find it incredible how people suddenly find morals on here, you are all into rape, talking about morals on any thread is a little pointless, and it's amazing how people on here react, Take my rep for example, people gave me negative rep all because I said the women who had her rape posted on youtube was probably lying, as the story seemed to fake to me, and oh look .. I was right, she was indeed lying and she was charged for it by the police. Did all those people suddenly give me good rep again?? No, they were quick to jump in and pretend they were good citizens, and the "section for real rape victims" is a stupid one, many of you may see this place as a forum for victims, but most know this board is mainly for people whacking off to rape, think most are going to want to share their real stories here? lol. know your roles people.