Question for Europeans and others: What do you think of Obama?

[rasputin]

By the way, ezzdx, in English we have expressions that involve animals such as, "one trick poney..." for instance.

That's not comparing the person to a horse. It has nothing to do with that. Or do you think that if I say that Obama is a "one trick poney" I am equating him with an equine?

[JohnnyReb]

ezzdx, since I know you aren't an American and I know English isn't your native language, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

rasputin is right, my comment about Obama wasn't meant to be taken as comparing Obama to a monkey.

Ungrateful, cheese eating surrender monkey is a term of derision used by some Americans to describe our fair weather allies in Europe, especially the French.

I was using it in a somewhat joking way, which is what I striked it out and put Europeans instead.

As for your idea that the Israeli's are terrorists, but the Palestinians and the Lebanese are not. Perhaps you should tell that to the families of the thousands of Israelis who've been blown up by the PLO, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.

[theDarkOne]

Im sorry rasputin,i don't know where you live but illegal immigrants are a huge financial strain in AZ.It costs Millions every year to treat them and because of it many hospitals had to close there level 1 trauma unit.The crime that they cause also is enormous on the people.I know they are people and they just want a better life but they Sh!t on the laws of the country they are trying to become a part of.Not to mention the environmental damage they inflict crossing the boarder.....You should do a little more research b4 you write.

I had one friend raped by an illegal and another almost beaten to death so this is very real to me.

Sorry i know this was about Obama but i could not let that go.Also if anyone thinks hes like JFK you need to read up on JFK.

[dashrendar44]

not to mention the thousands that died in your initial attacks on isreal, because you thought it shouldnt exist. or how about the militants that egypt was harbouring in secret in a plot to again attempt to retake isreal? oh yeah, isreal cought on and you all got your asses handed to you in seven days flat. isreal would own that entire region if the UN didnt stick its nose in. and if you even try to say that didnt happen, i have two words for you: gaza strip. so dont you fucking dare call israelis terrorists when it was egypt, lebanon and palestine (which is a whole nother barrel of fish, short version is they should all move back to greece) are the real terrorists. israel never provoked you but you all attacked it, or plotted to.

[touriquet2001]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

Okay, I misunderstood what you meant.

I took you to be taking an isolationist position and saying that the US shouldn't have forces deployed overseas.

no problem , i should have been more clearer in my post nice to disagree with someone that doesn't make up facts , ignore other ones and be a hypocritical jerk .

thank you for the kind words rasputin

[ezzdx]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

ezzdx, since I know you aren't an American and I know English isn't your native language, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

rasputin is right, my comment about Obama wasn't meant to be taken as comparing Obama to a monkey.

Ungrateful, cheese eating surrender monkey is a term of derision used by some Americans to describe our fair weather allies in Europe, especially the French.

I was using it in a somewhat joking way, which is what I striked it out and put Europeans instead.

Maybe.

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

As for your idea that the Israeli's are terrorists, but the Palestinians and the Lebanese are not. Perhaps you should tell that to the families of the thousands of Israelis who've been blown up by the PLO, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.

I'll tell you a proverb is suitable for this "don't put your hand in the beehive then complain from the bees's bites".
maybe you see or like to see the Israeli victims only but this won't change the real fact.

[Sanitarium]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

...short version is they should all move back to greece...

Excuse me?
What Greece has to do with all that?

I'm sorry to ask but it's the second time you're mentioning Greece in your posts, and not in a good way!

[ezzdx]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

not to mention the thousands that died in your initial attacks on isreal, because you thought it shouldnt exist.

I know you are a jewish or have a half jewish as I remember and I know it's painful for the most jewish when they hear what I said about Israel.
There wasn't a country called Israel before 1948,so this entity appeared suddenly in 1948 by killing the the citizens and Palestine and forced them to leave their houses because they will take it for the Israelians,and they take advantage of the disintegration of the Turkey or the Ottoman empire which was ruling Palastine in that time,and by the helps of Britain"which was the biggest power in that period" and by the authority corruption of the most Arabian countries in that time they could establish their fanatic country.
It's not the fault of the Palestinians that the most countries were beating and fire the jewish "for example the Holocaust and other,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#Persecution".

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

or how about the militants that egypt was harbouring in secret in a plot to again attempt to retake isreal? oh yeah, isreal cought on and you all got your asses handed to you in seven days flat.

I don't know of this is a imagination story or a dream or bullshit but the in any way this is a fake story.
I didn'y talk about Egypt in this as there aren't problems or fights now between Egypt and Israel but if you want to talk about Egypt vs Israel I can tell you,Egypt fucked Israel and beat it in The Yom Kippur War "6 October war" and take the all Egyptian lands that Israel stolen in the six days war,and Egyptian army was able to continue as the most Israelian unites were in Sinai and after this war the all this unites were killed or captured,but Egypt accepted the the American peace offer "it was an American gift for Israel" and didn't heat to the other countries which offered for helping Egypt to continue and remove Israel like Iran and libya.

and if you think that Israel could beat Egypt this would be the most foolish opinion I saw here because there is a big gap in every thing,Egypt have the biggest army in the middle east,but to be honest maybe it isn't the strongest after the nuclear Iran.

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

isreal would own that entire region if the UN didnt stick its nose in.

If the all countries and organizations let Israel and it's neighbors to deal with each others as they see,Israel will be removed and forever,it's like the family that is hated from the all its neighbors who live around it.
Israel is clever in attacking the citizens only and no country is better than it in this,but in the wars which an army is against an army Israel will lose,to give a simple example for this the war of 2006 summer which was between Israel and Hezbollah,although this Hezbollah is only some militias he could stop Israel from going into Lebanon and gave Israel many loses.

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

i have two words for you: gaza strip. so dont you fucking dare call israelis terrorists when it was egypt, lebanon and palestine (which is a whole nother barrel of fish, short version is they should all move back to greece) are the real terrorists. israel never provoked you but you all attacked it, or plotted to.

I don't understand what ypou mean by this,maybe you should explain it more,also what's the relation of Greece in all of this.
also I feel may you will get a two words from me but they will be different.

[JohnnyReb]

There are so many delusions, misconceptions, misstatements and flat out bullshit in that diatribe that I honestly don't know where to begin and so, I won't.

[JohnnyReb]

Originally Posted by Noir

Was my last post also filled with those since it was skipped without being noted at all?

No, in the case of your post, I went to bed right after my last reply to you. I read it later, but by then, others had replied and the thread had moved more to the subject of Israel.

That's one reason I didn't reply to you. The other being, I really didn't see much to reply to.

My point about hydrogen bombs was simply that if modern nuclear weapons are ever used, the death and destruction would be vastly greater than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Communism was bound to be destroyed sooner or later and you can't give the credit to US for that. I do actually live in a country that would have been joined to Soviet Union if Germany wouldn't have helped out us during WWII so I actually can thank nazism more than USA for this.

I don't at all agree with your contention that communism was "bound to fail."

Soviet communism failed for a variety of reasons, including the expense of waging the cold war, the eventually failure of the invasion of Afghanistan and the way that busted the myth of the invisibility of the mighty Red Army.

I can't really comment on your country, without knowing what country you are referring to.

During the time national socialists were in power in Germany the women were sexually more free than in several other countries so just assuming every totalitarian ideology would completely remove your freedom to express yourself in any way is false. After all democracy is a new idea invented by humans so it does not equal to freedom like many people seam to assume.

Sure, unless the woman happened to be a Jew, or a Roma, or a Slav, or a Pole, or a Russian or even a German who dared to oppose Nazism.

Oh well, I suppose, in a sense, they were "sexually free." They were free to be raped and tortured and murdered by the Nazis.

As for democracy being a "new idea." Yeah, I suppose it was a new idea. If you were living in Ancient Greece that is.

[rasputin]

Originally Posted by theDarkOne

Im sorry rasputin,i don't know where you live but illegal immigrants are a huge financial strain in AZ.It costs Millions every year to treat them and because of it many hospitals had to close there level 1 trauma unit.The crime that they cause also is enormous on the people.I know they are people and they just want a better life but they Sh!t on the laws of the country they are trying to become a part of.Not to mention the environmental damage they inflict crossing the boarder.....You should do a little more research b4 you write.

I had one friend raped by an illegal and another almost beaten to death so this is very real to me.

Sorry i know this was about Obama but i could not let that go.Also if anyone thinks hes like JFK you need to read up on JFK.

OK. I must admit I have not done research on this particular topic but you've mentioned several problems that, even without research, sound kind of dubious to me.

Let's see.

First, "it costs millions to treat illegal immigrants every year, and as a result of this, many trauma centers had to close down."

That's very strange. I'm not trying to imply you are lying, but I find that very hard to believe.

Let me explain. Immigrants ( legal and illegal...) are a minority of the population in any country you care to mention unless very special reasons apply.

That minority, even if it somehow benefits from some government services once in a while, as of necessity will have a much lower impact than the general population at large which, after all, are the majority.

How, then, is it that this very minor group of people end up forcing trauma centers to close down -presumably- due to over use?

How?

Are illegal immigrants more prone to accidents then the rest of the citizens? Why? So are we suggesting that as soon as you become a legal alien, you will minimize your chances of having accidents in the future?

I don't get it. There is something that doesn't sit well, here.

Or are you saying that, because illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, if they need treatment, the state can't recoup all the money spent on them later on?

But the same can be said of American citizens who are living on welfare. And American citizens on welfare, or sitting in prisons for all kinds of crimes, are far more numerous than illegal aliens languishing in trauma centers, costing the taxpayer millions, wouldn't you agree?

Also, it is virtually impossible to live in the US without paying taxes since you have to pay taxes on everything except, perhaps, breathing, sleeping, and taking a shit. And I'm not even sure how long that'll last, either.

Even when you buy a fucking taco at a Mexican joint you have to pay taxes.

I don't know. There is something with that argument of yours that doesn't jive here. Again, I'm not trying to imply you are lying. Perhaps it's true. Like I said, I haven't done any research on this topic so I'm just using my common sense because I'm too lazy to do otherwise.


The rest of your post is more of the emotional kind.

It's of the sort: "well, if someone you love had been attacked by an illegal alien, you would feel different towards illegal immigrants."

Which can prompt us to engage in an interesting exercise:

"well, if someone you love had been attacked by a Black guy, you would feel different towards African Americans."

Or:

"well,...........Jew,..............Jewish people..."

Or:


"well,.......... Puerto Rican........."

Etc.

[ezzdx]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

There are so many delusions, misconceptions, misstatements and flat out bullshit in that diatribe that I honestly don't know where to begin and so, I won't.

Are you mean my post by this.
Ezzdx don't say the delusions or the bullshit and you can believe this by way or another.ok Johny.

[Fred Astair]

Originally Posted by touriquet2001

agreed !!!! should have never of been in iraq and shouldn't be anywhere else unless we're attacked .

Said one of the three little pigs, arguing to remain inside the house and not look outside.

[JohnnyReb]

Originally Posted by ezzdx

Are you mean my post by this.
Ezzdx don't say the delusions or the bullshit and you can believe this by way or another.ok Johny.

Yes ezzdx, I meant you and your ridiculous propaganda.

Take your version of the Yom Kippur war as an example. Contrary to what you've posted here, the reality is quite different.

To start with, you attacked Israel without provocation. The element of surprise, combined with your large number of SAM batteries neutralizing the effectiveness of the Israeli air force, did in fact lead to initial Egyptian success in the Sinai.

However, by the time of the UN ceasefire, the Israeli army was within striking distance of Cairo and your Third Army was trapped and would have been utterly decimated by the Israeli's, had it not been for the US pressuring Israel to end the war.

You see ezzdx, one of the beautiful things about the Internet is, while you can come on and post whatever nonsense you want to. It's very easy for others to see for themselves that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I knew that you had no idea what you were talking about in the first place, but another beautiful thing about the Internet is I'm able to prove to others that you have no idea what you are talking about.

For anyone who would like to see the non-propagandized version of the Yom Kippur war, there's a very good Wiki article on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

[ezzdx]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

(which is a whole nother barrel of fish, short version is they should all move back to greece) .

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

As for democracy being a "new idea." Yeah, I suppose it was a new idea. If you were living in Ancient Greece that is.

Originally Posted by Sanitarium

Excuse me?
What Greece has to do with all that?

I'm sorry to ask but it's the second time you're mentioning Greece in your posts, and not in a good way!

Sorry Sani I don't know why the Greece has been involved in this,honestly I haven't information about any relation between Greece and the jewish or Israel.
I'm afraid to hear the jewish claim that their grandfathers were who was building the Ancient Greece and they who made the culture of Greece great,and Zious Hercules,Achilles and the other Greek legends were jewish,and for this they will take some parts of Greece for Israel.

[ezzdx]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

Yes ezzdx, I meant you and your ridiculous propaganda.

Take your version of the Yom Kippur war as an example. Contrary to what you've posted here, the reality is quite different.

To start with, you attacked Israel without provocation. The element of surprise, combined with your large number of SAM batteries neutralizing the effectiveness of the Israeli air force, did in fact lead to initial Egyptian success in the Sinai.

However, by the time of the UN ceasefire, the Israeli army was within striking distance of Cairo and your Third Army was trapped and would have been utterly decimated by the Israeli's, had it not been for the US pressuring Israel to end the war.

You see ezzdx, one of the beautiful things about the Internet is, while you can come on and post whatever nonsense you want to. It's very easy for others to see for themselves that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I knew that you had no idea what you were talking about in the first place, but another beautiful thing about the Internet is I'm able to prove to others that you have no idea what you are talking about.

For anyone who would like to see the non-propagandized version of the Yom Kippur war, there's a very good Wiki article on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

I said the truth and the people are free to believe any of us in this,but I'm sure the rational and wise member will believe me in this.
in the first I want to tell you that Israel isn't able to attack Cairo and wasn't,they can attack any city in Palastine or Lebanon and even they are afraid during this.
if Egypt didn't beat Israel in the Yom Kippur war,how Egypt backed all of Sinai,and why only Egypt is the only country who got back the all of her parts which stolen from Israel in six days war.
also you can use wikipedia to make some one notice an historical event but you can't use it as a trusted source for the historical information because you can edit their information.

I know you are clever in faking and counterfeit the facts but I won't talk and talk in our victories in that war,I'll use you only one thing and it's the map,if you see the map of Egypt now you will find the alll parts of Sinai is an Egyptian lands.

[touriquet2001]

Originally Posted by Fred Astair

Said one of the three little pigs, arguing to remain inside the house and not look outside.

ummm , so i guess you're in favor of attacking (making war) against any country you don't agree with ? even if they don't attack you ? for little or no reason ? what's the next country you want the u.s. to invade ?

[dashrendar44]

ok, for one thing, lets clear up the greece comment. long story short: palestinians are actually decended from ancient greeks that got stranded there after alexander the greats rule fell apart. it was either go back to greece and get executed or stay and hide. what do you think theyd do? even the modern name "palestine" comes from an old semitic word with the same connotations as "xenocracy" as in, foreign rulers. the palestinians have absolutely no claim to the land in my opinion.

what does me being half jewish have to do with anything? i grew up pretty much without the jewish half of my family, what im saying is simply fact on the matter.

i wasnt lying about the militants. that was the whole cause of the seven days war. egypt was hiding militants and preparing for a pre emptive strike on israel, but israel found out and attacked before you did. egypt had to call on its little bully buddies for help, but even in a three against one fight, in just seven days not only did israel regain the land that your countries rob from it back in 49, it even took some of your own lands! THATS why i mentioned gaza strip. because its proof of israels victory. you cannot deny that this happened ezzdx.

you have some serious bias about the 2006 conflict. israel struck after hesbollah attacked them first, and lebanon was in a far greater state of disrepair than israel was. most of southern lebanon was considered inhospitable due to the damage and unexploded clusters still there. plus, lebanon still refuses to disarm hesbollah even though they agreed to it in 2006 after the ceasefire. how can you say what they did is good?

[JohnnyReb]

Originally Posted by ezzdx

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="PaleGreen"]

I know you are clever in faking and counterfeit the facts but I won't talk and talk in our victories in that war,I'll use you only one thing and it's the map,if you see the map of Egypt now you will find the alll parts of Sinai is an Egyptian lands.

Yes, TODAY all of the Sinai belongs to Egypt. That would be because Israel agreed to return the land they had captured from Egypt, in two wars that Egypt STARTED, as a part of the 1979 peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

As for Wikipedia not being a "trusted source." If I wanted to take the time, I could find plenty of other sources, but I simply don't see the point.

It's not as if what this is some arcane piece of information. Israel captured the Sinai from Egypt in the 1967 war. Egypt had considerable initial success in the Sinai in the 1973 war, but ultimately, the Israelis were able to not only repeal the Egyptian forces, but the Israeli army advanced deep into Egyptian territory and had your Third Army trapped and completely cutoff from the rest of the Egyptian forces.

The Sinai was ultimately returned to Egypt as part of the 1979 peace treaty. In return, Egypt agreed to formally recognize Israel and to guarantee Israelis ship free passage through the Suez Canal.

These are simple and easily verified historical facts that should already be known to anyone with even a passing knowledge of the recent history of the region. If you want to continue to argue them, then be my guest.

[JohnnyReb]

While I'm sure you will find some excuse for why this is also not a reliable source of information, here is another article on the history of modern Israel.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...rael/intro.htm

It's too long to copy and paste the entire article here, but here's an excerpt that is relevant to the discussion at hand.

In June 1967, Israeli forces struck targets in Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in response to Egyptian President Nasser's ordered withdrawal of UN peacekeepers from the Sinai Peninsula and the buildup of Arab armies along Israel's borders. After 6 days, all parties agreed to a cease-fire, under which Israel retained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the formerly Jordanian-controlled West Bank of the Jordan River, and East Jerusalem. On November 22, 1967, the Security Council adopted Resolution 242, the "land for peace" formula, which called for the establishment of a just and lasting peace based on Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967 in return for the end of all states of belligerency, respect for the sovereignty of all states in the area, and the right to live in peace within secure, recognized boundaries.

The following years were marked by continuing violence across the Suez Canal, punctuated by the 1969-70 war of attrition. On October 6, 1973--Yom Kippur (the Jewish Day of Atonement), the armies of Syria and Egypt launched an attack against Israel. Although the Egyptians and Syrians initially made significant advances, Israel was able to push the invading armies back beyond the 1967 cease-fire lines by the time the United States and the Soviet Union helped bring an end to the fighting. In the UN Security Council, the United States supported Resolution 338, which reaffirmed Resolution 242 as the framework for peace and called for peace negotiations between the parties.

In the years that followed, sporadic clashes continued along the cease-fire lines but guided by the U.S., Egypt, and Israel continued negotiations. In November 1977, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat made a historic visit to Jerusalem, which opened the door for the 1978 Israeli-Egyptian peace summit convened at Camp David by President Carter. These negotiations led to a 1979 peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, pursuant to which Israel withdrew from the Sinai in 1982, signed by President Sadat of Egypt and Prime Minister Menahem Begin of Israel.