Stern

[SecretObsession]

But seriously... I did say ANY COUNTRY

[touriquet2001]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

im not disagreeing, but seriously, you cant just blame the terrorists...airport security is just as culpable, possibly moreso. and there are many countries that have had terrorist attacks committed on them. like i said above, the 7/7 bombings in london killed a lot of people. canada has a few too, like the air india incident, and the october crisis. every country has its own story, and its not a wound unique to america.

shouldn't we be condemning all of them , the terrorist attacks ? instead of saying this country deserved it , this one didn't ?

[dashrendar44]

you can condemn all you want, it wont change the past and it wont change attitudes. people condemn napoleon and hitler but people still like them. i think napoleon was the greatest frenchman ever, and i admire hitler, not for the holocaust but for his ability to rebuild a broken nation and for his prowess in public speaking and strategic planning. if it wasnt for him, wed still be digging ditches in the dirt every time we went to war

not everything in the past is good or bad, everyone knows that. im not saying anyone ever really deserves to die. but it happens. forgive and forget.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

you can condemn all you want, it wont change the past and it wont change attitudes. people condemn napoleon and hitler but people still like them. i think napoleon was the greatest frenchman ever, and i admire hitler, not for the holocaust but for his ability to rebuild a broken nation and for his prowess in public speaking and strategic planning. if it wasnt for him, wed still be digging ditches in the dirt every time we went to war

not everything in the past is good or bad, everyone knows that. im not saying anyone ever really deserves to die. but it happens. forgive and forget.

Its very admirable to admit that dash. I admire Che Guevara and Fidel Castro even thought some people wouldnt agree with me that they are true heroes. They had heart, drive, ambition, and balls the size of church bells.

[dashrendar44]

yeah, che is big on my list too...so is the IRA. no one really deserved to die during their attacks on england, but it happened. still, they managed to acheve peace with the north. terrorism is bad, but it can be forgiven

[Sierra]

Sorry to disagree but no amount of security in the world will prevent something like this from happening. Most of the men involved with 9/11 had been here for years. Do we really want to start being suspicious of every foreign-born person here?

America is not its government. Killing innocent people for no reason other than to stick a thumb in the eye of the government is wrong.

We can argue endlessly about who should have done what, whether Americans were complacent (yes, probably we were), whether we should regulate our airspace more tightly (again, probably we should) and whether our standing with the international community has been damaged. Were Americans vulnerable, arrogant and had the feeling that we were invincible? Yes. Admitted.

THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!!

The point here is that NO country, NO people should be attacked and killed in their thousands just because they are vulnerable to attack. To me, it is like saying a woman who walks the street in a short skirt and gets attacked "had it coming".

9/11 is but one of hundreds of terrorist incidents. They are ALL reprehensible, horrendous acts. NOT ONE of the people who died or were injured in those attacks around the world "had it coming."

Terrorists are criminals, whether they attack a building or a woman. We abhor the harming of innocent people UNLESS there is a political motivation? Why is that?

9/11 hit home for me because I know those buildings and I knew some of the people affected, but that doesn't mean that I don't cry for the victims of other attacks. If there are a majority those among us who do not cry for the thousands of people of all races, nationalities, religions and creeds who have died in senseless acts of terrorism - including 9/11 - then what hope is there that a second Holocaust is not just around the corner?

[Mugga123]

Originally Posted by RapeU

Well Stern does have a point. America DID have it coming.

Here's my mindset before 9/11 and probably the mindset of nearly every American - We are invincible! No one would be foolish enough to attack our mainland. Japan snuck up on us at Pearl Harbor, but that was a fluke! No one would dare attack us now!

That's like saying that someone with Stern's temperament, deserves to be raped (real) because she's a feminist cocktease.

[dashrendar44]

Originally Posted by Sierra

Sorry to disagree but no amount of security in the world will prevent something like this from happening. Most of the men involved with 9/11 had been here for years. Do we really want to start being suspicious of every foreign-born person here?

what i meant was not "america should have been racially profiling people", but "airport security should have prevented ANYONE with weapons from getting onboard even one plane, let alone three" i dont care if the attackers were muslim, christain, jew, what the fuck ever. it could have been anyone. but the attackers still got on the plane, ARMED. thats what i mean when i say that airport security was partly at fault.

like i said before, im not condoning the attacks. no one deserves to die like that. but crying over it isnt going to bring them back. work for a better future so it doesnt happen again, its the best you can do for all victims of terrorism

[touriquet2001]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

like i said before, im not condoning the attacks. no one deserves to die like that. but crying over it isnt going to bring them back. work for a better future so it doesnt happen again, its the best you can do for all victims of terrorism

discounting it , saying it was deserved , forgiving and forgetting it ... does none of those things either .

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

like i said before, im not condoning the attacks. no one deserves to die like that. but crying over it isnt going to bring them back. work for a better future so it doesnt happen again, its the best you can do for all victims of terrorism

I agree with you. Handwringing angst and a "woe is me" attitude does not help at all, nor does untargeted blind anger. George Santayana said, aptly, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." We MUST learn from this and move forward.

But we don't move forward by blithely condemning the victims.

And I will take a few minutes to cry first.

[dashrendar44]

i dont recall condemning the victims...i dont think anyone did...even in sterns post, she said it wasnt about the victims, but the government and aims of the terrorists. the only reason im posting in this thread is because i think that SOs reaction was a bit more harsh and personal than the situation merited.

[ChiTownHoney]

Ok now. What Stern I think was trying to say is that it was expected that it happened...you know, maybe after all the tension and political dust going on in the world. She is not trying to put it in a way to imply that those people deserved it or that American people deserved it. I dont think that is what she meant. I think that she simply meant what she said, that we had it coming. What goes around comes around. Simple as that. Its not an exact equal exchange of terror, but terror none the less.

She doesnt give a crap about 9/11. Who cares? I barely give a crap. And no I am not a bad person because I did not cry for the victims. There are victims of violence EVERY DAMN DAY. Should I cry all day every day?

[sindyloo]

Dear Sierra no one deserves to die but it happens everywhere. Mostly with our government involved in it all. I am sure the 9-11 people died horribly but so did the women and children in Waco died just the same, lkilled by our own Government. The reason because they wanted to be left alone.

The unknown Motto of our Armed Services is this..."Travel to exotic new lands, meet new wonderful people, then kill those new people" nuff said.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by sindyloo

The unknown Motto of our Armed Services is this..."Travel to exotic new lands, meet new wonderful people, then kill those new people" nuff said.

Only if they dont do what you tell them. If they are willing to be your puppet, kiss your ass and adopt the same values and political system, then they are fine. If not, then, well, you know what happens.

[star67]

I'm fine with most of this post.. but... her family? Wishing death on innocent people just because someone they know said something you didn't like is a little creepy.

[RLA68]

I know that I have stirred some shit lately in this forum and started some squabbles. I have however sat back on some of the fairly high emotional threads.

Anyone who says that this is just the internet and there is no way for a person to ever be insulted just has to review a couple. It shouldn’t happen but these typed words mean a lot to the people behind the screen names.

I had read a few posts by Stern and really admired her thought behind them and the job she had done as a mod. I also have read quite a few posts and developed a high respect for Secret as she demonstrated the attitude that I certainly most of us should have in coming to this site and others to have fun and be a positive contributor.

With that said, I respect both of them. Not choosing sides either. I will say that words can be misinterpreted when in type. I hate e-mail to a large extent as a primary source of communication at least because of that.

9/11 was a tragedy not only for the USA but the world. If the mighty super power is that vulnerable then any country is.

Yes, the USA government is now known for some dirty policies in the past and present. A group of leaders that say one thing as the world police officer but have a total other agenda that is less than moral. I love this country and am proud I served in the military and during Desert Storm 1990-1991 but my love and admiration is due to what this country stands for not the leadership or skewed policies.

With that…I do feel using any terrorist act or tragedy as such is not appropriate in this setting to make a point. If Stern, RLA68 and whoever were in a setting alone talking about politics and this controversial point came up…she would be able to explain it fully and adjust to add counterpoints to show us her side.

On the net the type words are what they are. That is too bad. I see both points of view just as I stated. I doubt either classy little lady honestly believes anyone innocents should die.

Some great opinions in this thread by the way.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney

Ok now. What Stern I think was trying to say is that it was expected that it happened...you know, maybe after all the tension and political dust going on in the world. She is not trying to put it in a way to imply that those people deserved it or that American people deserved it. I dont think that is what she meant. I think that she simply meant what she said, that we had it coming. What goes around comes around. Simple as that. Its not an exact equal exchange of terror, but terror none the less.

She doesnt give a crap about 9/11. Who cares? I barely give a crap. And no I am not a bad person because I did not cry for the victims. There are victims of violence EVERY DAMN DAY. Should I cry all day every day?

The USA has not a good politic at all...like the usual who pay for this shit is the "popolo"...yeah as allways...
how many innocents are died in Iraq or in Afghanistan..??!!!
More than at the 9/11...but here in europe (in general) no one cares about it...and i guess in USA too...that's awful to me.

[Sternenlied]

Oh boy ... this little post caused so much trouble ... ?
I wasn't even going to answer since SO's statement is just sad.
You do not want to discuss the politics behind 9/11 - in essence what led to it? Fine. So in the end you were just looking for a reason to finally throw some insults at me.
If you had any intention to actually talk about my comment and maybe even ask before what I meant and why I posted it you might have chosen a different place than the RR ...
Since you simply want to throw some rubbish at me, please, feel free to do so. I don't really mind.

But this board has enough wars going on right now, so for the sake of peace I'll spend the time to give you a sensible answer.

Why did I say it in the first place?
It is true.
Admitted, I was shaken by the violence unleashed on so many people by such vile measures but that's it. So many people die all around the world (as innocent as those victims were) and nobody cares. We got used to it. The USA however (as some US citizens already stated) felt totally invincible, especially by those "camel-herders" far away. So when something finally happens I am supposed to be especially in awe just becuse this time US civilians died? Certainly not.
I have stated more than once that I see no boundaries to what cruelty and violence humans can unleash on other humans just for the cause they believe in. So frankly I wasn't too suprised and/or shocked simply. I have been told I am hyperrational, mostly meant as some sort of insult but in essence ... ? Why?
I don't condone violence in any way. I don't support it and I don't support terrorism. I never did in that post either. If you want to believe I do however ... what difference would it make if I told you otherwise? As for your comments about the Jews ... well, that's even beneath you and certainly not worth any more replies.
You don't want to discuss it ... well, so I won't either. At least not here. If you have any honest interest in my opinion about it, talk to me in a reasonable fashion.
If you had given the thread it was posted in some thought you might have seen this: Smoke decided to finally lash out at ezzdx because he posted a picture of a dead US Marshal (fake, as ezzdx stated already) and this angered him. He wouldn't let anyone post a picture of a dead US officer? Rape pictures (fake as well) and pictures of other victims are okay, but not US American ones? That is exactly the attitude I mentioned before. So I told him something much bigger about dead US citizens that didn't bother me as well. If you took it personal ... your problem. If you eventually lost friends, loves ones, whatever in 9/11 (as anybody else here from the USA might have) I am honestly sorry for your loss but that's it. Many people here might have lost friends/family members for whatever reasons. You don't mourn them. Some members have been raped for real and still you are here enjoying your rape fantasies with others who do so as well. So don't give me that hypocritical crap about not saying something like that on a board like this one. There have been much more violent insults towards people.

I am (one of those rare occasions ) with ChiTownHoney on this one. She (and many others, unlike you) actually thought about it for a short while and got what I meant.
Also: Maybe you do but I just don't feel sorry for people who die around the world, who I don't know, never met, never meet any family, etc. Not 9/11, not the great tsunami, not Serbia/Croatia, not those ethnic cleansings in Africa ... I don't think these people deserve to die of course, I already said however that I am just not suprised at mankind's cruelty anymore.

What else is there to say without talking about the actual subject of those two lines? Nothing I guess.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Oh boy ... this little post caused so much trouble ... ?

If you had given the thread it was posted in some thought you might have seen this: Smoke decided to finally lash out at ezzdx because he posted a picture of a dead US Marshal (fake, as ezzdx stated already) and this angered him. He wouldn't let anyone post a picture of a dead US officer? Rape pictures (fake as well) and pictures of other victims are okay, but not US American ones? That is exactly the attitude I mentioned before. So I told him something much bigger about dead US citizens that didn't bother me as well. If you took it personal ... your problem.

da li fa con ri spa ge luchi!

You are sharp, and you get it better than a lot of these numbnuts ever could. It doesn't take more than Smoke to start a flame war! I did it easily by opening my mouth, and everyone was baited by it, but you.

HA HA HA

You are Smoke's favorite, you will be spared.

[star67]

Originally Posted by Smoke

It doesn't take more than Smoke to start a flame war! I did it easily by opening my mouth, and everyone was baited by it, but you.
.

Everyone? Flattering yourself a bit don't you think?

I could smell your troll stench a mile off. As did most of the other people who didn't bother to reply to you.