Politics, anyone?

[Sierra]

As the American presidential campaign approaches its peak of idiotic frenzy, I figured I'd start a thread on it. Although the methods we Americans use to choose our president is hard for those of you outside the U.S. (and some of us inside the U.S., too) to figure out, the issues are the same in every country. I have to say that I am relieved beyond measure that the dark days of "Dubya"(President Bush) are coming to an end.

Question for the Americans:

What concerns you most in the next four years? The war? The economy? Health care?

Question for those outside the U.S.:

What do you want to see from our president?

If there is some interest, I'll keep the political discussion going in this thread. If not, all Americans should still go out and vote in these next elections.

[dashrendar44]

lol, well i may only be canadian, but this still affects me just as much as yall...frankly, americans need to commie up their health care system like we have, but it simply wont happen till they fix the immigration problem, there will be too many aliens leeching off the system, essentially stealing from the country...yall gotta pull outta the war too lol

as for win? id rather hilary win, obama is far too wishy washy with his statements(ie he has claimed that he wants to decriminalize weed but at the same time, and in the same fucking sentence he also said that he dosent want to legalise it...WTF?!)

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

lol, well i may only be canadian, but this still affects me just as much as yall...

It absolutely does, as our nearest neighbor. We tend to be rather pushy neighbors, too, unfortunately. (Sorry, Canadians!)

frankly, americans need to commie up their health care system like we have, but it simply wont happen till they fix the immigration problem, there will be too many aliens leeching off the system, essentially stealing from the country

The American health care system is broken, no doubt. We have the best care in the world, but only for those who can afford it. We'll have this discussion offline, over a bottle of wine one night. Anyone else care to join?

The immigration system is more complicated. I live in California, where fully 40% of North America's produce is grown. Without migrant workers, who come here during harvest and then usually go home, both of our economies and lifestyle would suffer. Of course, Dubya's idea of building a fence is ridiculous, but even if a real barrier could be erected not only would both you and I spend more for our fruits and vegetables, but small family farms would go under because only the large farming combines would be able to afford labor costs. Hobson's choice, really

...yall gotta pull outta the war too lol

Amen, brother.

as for win? id rather hilary win, obama is far too wishy washy with his statements(ie he has claimed that he wants to decriminalize weed but at the same time, and in the same fucking sentence he also said that he dosent want to legalise it...WTF?!)

Decriminalize = make the use and possession of marijuana a misdemeanor, amounting to not much more than a traffic ticket. That's how it is in California now.
Legalize = make it completely legal to possess, grow, or use marijuana, with some restrictions as to age similar to alcohol.

Although in most circumstances I would honor the sisterhood and vote for a woman, I will not vote for THAT woman. I just can't. I don't like her position on the war, can't even understand her health care policy, and am suspicious of her husband. Barach Obama is intelligent, balanced, urbane and a brilliant orator. Although I don't agree with everything on his platform, at least I can f'n understand it.

[dashrendar44]

but are you aware he had homosexual relations in 1999 and is trying to cover it up? the guy called obama out and hes been pussyfooting it like mad, constantly changing the subject and not addressing the concern...its like kerry and bush all rolled into one @_@

[somedude]

Uggghhhhh politics...

[Jasmine]

I rarely post in political threads but ....here goes

Yes, America has problems, but so does every other country.

If you want to make a real difference, you need to vote in not only the Presidential Elections but the primaries. Primaries determine who runs in the election. You also need to vote in the Senate and House races. After all, these are your representatives that make the laws.

Let's talk about health care. People think that it magically allows them access to all the health care they want and need, but that's just not true.

Canadians come to the US to be treated for things that they can't get treated for in Canada. I have a friend in England that still carries private insurance because she feels the quality of care is so low.

It becomes a numbers game. There is not an unlimited pool of money. Let's say you have two people who need a heart by-pass. One is 60 one is 70. Both are in good health otherwise. The 60 year old will get the by-pass because they have a longer life expectancy.

Do you really want your government to decide who lives and who dies? Who gets treated and who doesn't?

What happens to the level of care for doctors when they are on salary? Do you think the best and brightest are going to accept the Federal insurance? No. They will be private pay only.

Our government is not good at taking care of our veterans. I worked at a nursing home for a while. We would send emergency cases to the VA hospital. There were 2 occasions that I went to visit these patients and found them lying in a bed in a corridor the next day.

What happens to research? Where does cutting edge research come from? An experimental procedure that is too expensive can't be funded because of lack of funds. Would we have had the artificial heart? What about organ transplants? Would these transplants be based on who has the most value to society?

I hear people talk about our President as if he were the devil incarnate. I can't imagine how difficult it is to lead a country during this time. I know we were all about getting the terrorist after 9/11. But, we wanted it to be a 3 week event. Sometimes it gets messy. I'm not saying being in Iraq is right. I am saying that I know soldiers who have been there and they felt it was the right thing to do. I have a nephew and 3 friends there right now. I trust them.

I am so tired of people slamming us for being a world leader. But yet, who is the first to offer aid when it's needed? How many countries have defaulted on loans from us and yet, we continue to support them with aid?

Let's talk about the UN and our contributions. Our contribution to the UN Peace Keeping Budget in 2006 was 27%.

Table 2: Other Notable Contributions to the UN Regular Budget as of June

Nation or Grouping Percentage
United States 22.00
Japan 19.47
Germany 8.66
United Kingdom 6.13
France 6.03
Italy 4.89
Canada 2.81
Spain 2.52
China 2.05
Mexico 1.88
The G-77 9.64
The Lowest 128 Contributors 0.966

http://www.unausa.org/site/pp.asp?c=...PJpF&b=1813833

We could do so much as a country if we just let the rest of the world alone, but it doesn't work that way as Dash points out.

Almost entire industries have been wiped out of the US and shipped overseas. Ask any textile worker what they think about the Democratic President doing that to them. The town where I grew up had 3 textile mills. They were all closed after NAFTA. We were promised it would only be jobs that American's didn't want to do. Guess again. Those former proud textile workers now bus tables in restaurants. They went from making $12-20 an hour to minimum wage.

Have you called customer support about your computer or software lately? Again, jobs taken from American's.

Do you know that companies not only get lower labor costs by moving out of the US but they were actually given tax incentives by our government to move those jobs?

So the economy is a primary concern to me.

Bill got the BJ, but we got screwed!

[menace]

What do I want to see from the US president?

Droping the politics of "If You Are Not With Us, You are Against Us" would be a good start. It's quite uncomfortable to be branded as enemy just because you see no reason to fight in someone else's war.

True freedom of trade instead of the charity of "cheap" loans.

Equal standards in brining down dictatorships, instead of only those opposing US policy.

More responsibility in running the economy instead of just dumping internal troubles onto everyone else.

I know, not gonna happen, but it's nice to dream...

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by dashrendar44

but are you aware he had homosexual relations in 1999 and is trying to cover it up? the guy called obama out and hes been pussyfooting it like mad, constantly changing the subject and not addressing the concern...its like kerry and bush all rolled into one @_@

You've been reading the tabloids too much. First of all, I don't give a crap if he had homosexual relations and his sexual preferences in general are none of my damn business. After all, Bill Clinton got a blowjob in the Oval Office and he was a pretty good president, all things considered. G.W. Bush taught us that there's more to the job than just not getting blown in the White House.

Second, it's the "Moral Majority" homophobic bigots who start these types of rumors because they're in a muck sweat about the possibility of a black man becoming president. Calling someone a "fag" is the worst thing they could think of. It reminds me of the grade school playground. There is no way Obama could deny these ridiculous rumors without (1) sounding homophobic, which he is not; or (2) giving them far more attention than they deserve.

If you disagree with Obama's politics, that's fine - just don't vote for him. If you don't want a black man as president, that's fine too - don't vote for him. This childish namecalling tells me more about the accusers than the accused.

(Dash - I'm not referring to you, specifically. This is a general "you", not a specific one.)

[dashrendar44]

lol no, i have no problem with if hes gay or not either sierra, the problem i have is that hes fighting so vehemently to sidestep and hide this issue. THATS the problem, i wouldnt want a secretive person like that in control of my country. hell, look what happened when we elected mulrooney, our country nearly went to shit, he signed us onto NAFTA (which almost no one in canada, liberal or conservative wanted) and other giant cockups. and stephen harper right now is a good example too. the man makes literally 10 public appearances a year and literally no one from his cabinet is allowed to talk to the press. NO ONE KNOWS WHATS GOING ON!!! many people are regretting electing him, but we cant get rid of him because of dion being to wishy washy...at least hilary lays thing out in the open and tells us what we need to hear from her, and dosent hide from pressing issues ike obama does. i do like his positions on things, but someone so deadset on hiding from something like a guy claiming he got blown by him 8 years ago makes me wonder what hell do if he ends up with a serious deficit or other crazy problem. someone that wont be open and clean-slated with their people is not fit to lead, and thats simply a fact.

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

i dont think it will make one inch of difference who gets voted to lead america - will anything really change ??

the real power in america does not lie with the president or the parties - but with MONEY !! - thats right and the folks who got loads !!

Think about this - just imagine bush had a dream tonight in which he was visited by god and convinced that the war in Iraq was a terrible mistake and that he should withdraw and apologise immediately. The next morning he wakes up - do you seriously think he would be allowed to go on air and state those views !! or would he be *quietly spoken to* !!! lol

thats my point whoever gets voted in is always just gonna be *the face* for the powers who ultimately decide everything anyway !!

foget politics --- REVOLUTION !!!!!!!!!!!

[ego]

Do you really believe that the name of the president will change something (other than the name itself) ?

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by ego

Do you really believe that the name of the president will change something (other than the name itself) ?

A president in our country is limited by Congress in the good (s)he can do, but a president can do unlimited harm, both nationally and internationally.

Mr. Bush has done our country immeasureable harm in his eight years in office.

If we can get someone in the White House who does nothing more than make silly speeches and follow the law we're better off than we are now. To quote Hippocrates, a president should "First, do no harm."

[ego]

That was my point.
I believe its not possible for the U.S president to do no harm, regardless his name.

[ego]

I mean, look at your signature....

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

Originally Posted by ego

Do you really believe that the name of the president will change something (other than the name itself) ?

lol ego u made my point in one sentence !!

[Jasmine]

Consider for a moment that the media is typically a liberal biased organization. Unlike President's prior to the Nixon administration, the President was treated with respect.

Could it possibly be that the press shows the worst because either on a conscious or unconscious level they don't like a republican.

I am not saying he's the greatest President we have ever had, but I think it's difficult to say that he's worse than Carter and at least more truthful than Bush.

Do you have access to the information he has? No?

Bush had an 81% popularity rating when he went after terrorists. Once that victory lasted longer than a month, suddenly, he's the worst.

If Clinton had the balls to go after Bin Laden when he was in office, 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

The last election, I went to bed afraid that Bush wouldn't win because of the choices we had. Any President would have to deal with the same issues. The first thing asked after 9/11 was why didn't we know? Because budgets have been cut and we don't have the resources to know what we need to know.

So, you would rather have some politically correct person afraid to do what needs to be done?
Why is it that we are so hated? Because we are prosperous? Because we want people to be free? Because we get involved when others just turn their head? Look where that got us with Hitler.

If you judge a country by how many people are trying to get into that country we are on top of the list.

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

"If Clinton had the balls to go after Bin Laden when he was in office, 9/11 wouldn't have happened"

- If reagan hadnt armed and trained bin laden and the mujahideen in the tactics of terror and bombmaking against the soviet union - then also 9, 11 wouldnt have happened.

"Why is it that we are so hated?" -

-GREED AND A SELFISH RULE ON THE WORLD - SUPPORT OF HEINOUS DICTATORS AND MOST OF ALL INJUSTICE AND INEQUALITY IN THE DESICIONS THAT U LAY DOWN FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD TO ADHERE TO.

btw - i still love u though jas !! lol

[ego]

Wow Maddog! The king is naked!

[menace]

Originally Posted by Jasmine

Consider for a moment that the media is typically a liberal biased organization. Unlike President's prior to the Nixon administration, the President was treated with respect.

I think all candidates got bashed at some point. They would have to be, because the press must cater to their republican clients as well.

Originally Posted by Jasmine

Why is it that we are so hated? Because we are prosperous? Because we want people to be free? Because we get involved when others just turn their head? Look where that got us with Hitler.

Because American foreign policy has been looking out for number one with absolutly no regard for anyone else for way too long.
This wanting people to be free... Do Americans still believe that? Because no one else is buying it anymore.
And as far as Hitler goes, the US was the world champ in looking the other way right there.

Originally Posted by Jasmine

If you judge a country by how many people are trying to get into that country we are on top of the list.

You just got your ass kicked by Chad! All those milions of Darfurans trying to get in bring up the average

[ego]

Truth is i dont have access to the informations that the U.S president has. And that's why i dont trust him.
Perhaps Bin Laden is in the same level with the president, perhaps he's only the one who represents "terrorism". He is not alone, there is some "dynamics" behind him.

I believe that one who wants to eliminate something has to search for its root. To cut off its motivations.
Here is an information in which both me and the president have access:
Worldwide, 90% of the wealth is consumed by 10% of the population.

Originally Posted by Jasmine

Why is it that we are so hated? Because we are prosperous? Because we want people to be free? Because we get involved when others just turn their head?

Nothing personal Jas!
I just hate the idea -oil found in Aegean sea-U.S (or anyone) comes to "save" us.