A women's body: Designed for rape?

[ego]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Well, the act of "rape" is forcing a sexual act upon an unwilling partner.
Consent can by definition only be given or denied by a self-conscious entity (which - concerning animals - is still in dispute).
So in my opinion it's not an "invention" by mankind but rather a premise of human existence actually.
As we all have been taught by history there is no cruelty humans are not capable of inflicting upon each other. Rape has always been a tool of power to be used against women, because - by nature - men can force themselves on women. So I'd rather turn the original statement around to "men are made to rape" instead of "woman are made to be raped".

I believe modern terms become inefficient for a view on mankind. When surviving depends on a club, rape would be a futile term. A clubman would consider she belongs to him, but she would want to be owned anyway.
In a world dominated by warriors often women are not included in ethics; the same action has different effect depending on the gender. Some cultures still dispute about if women are self-conscious entities.
Even when rape/forced sex was happenning for humilliation reasons i doubt it was personal. I think it was more of a power display to her man.. being woman usually had no pride anyway.

I believe "rape" as we know it today appeard when women where approved (by society) as humans (so violence against them is considered a bad thing) and expanded quickly with the commercialization of the pussy.

I would agree with "men are made to rape"; then, its not imortant if women are made to be raped or not.

[ego]

Originally Posted by cryptic

... but i also saw a documentary that said dolphins are the only animals known to rape and even gang-rape females of the species.
And yes, the female is actually left upset by it.

Dolphins are humans who went live in the sea my dear.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by ego

Dolphins are humans who went live in the sea my dear.

eh eh for what i remember they were close to the dogs...honestly i have no idea how they arrived to live into the sea

[[m[o_o]m]]

nature is the light. everything else is humanity and the silly shit humans have created.

[Jennevieve]

Originally Posted by ego

Dolphins are humans who went live in the sea my dear.

Dolphins are actually the only other species that have sex for pleasure

[MyNatalie]

Hmm glad to have caused some controversy.

Whether or not a woman is 'made' for rape becomes secondary to whether she is made for rape in the mind of a would be rapist.

So one could ask why a woman is so easy to rape and why so many woman would post on a site like this? The mind of a woman kind of makes her very suited to rape. Not only is that a constant fear/taboo but a number of them actually get wet thinking about it!!!

Once read that in a survey of women's fantasies, being forced and being fucked by an unknown man very often features! Is this truth or rumour?

[Sternenlied]

So one could ask why a woman is so easy to rape (...)

Is that so?
Did you ever give it a try?
Why are most rapists so stupid they leave evidence behind? Does that mean men are too stupid to get away with it?
Why are animals so easy to kill? Does that mean man has the right to kill them just because we can?
Why is the planet so easy to pollute? Does that mean we should just because it doesn't cause us any effort?
Originally men had to protect women to ensure survival of the tribe. Thanks to mankind's evolution and all its wonders this premise has been lost. Like you said - women are made to be raped in the eyes of (some) rapists, very disturbed individuals. So the notion women are designed to be raped has to be in the head of an equally disturbed person (if he/she actually believes it).

(...) and why so many woman would post on a site like this?

Because many women enjoy this sexual preference.
Why do so many men post on a site like this? Do they all want to rape a woman?

The mind of a woman kind of makes her very suited to rape.

That claim requires further clarification.

Not only is that a constant fear/taboo but a number of them actually get wet thinking about it!!!

Once read that in a survey of women's fantasies, being forced and being fucked by an unknown man very often features! Is this truth or rumour?

Depends ... many women have sexual fantasies about forceful and rather rough intercourse, for various reasons. If you read around the board you'll clearly see there's a big distinction between consentual rape fantasy sex and actually being raped.
Most women fantasising about actually being raped, getting aroused by that thought is a rumour.

[ego]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Originally men had to protect women to ensure survival of the tribe. Thanks to mankind's evolution and all its wonders this premise has been lost.

I dont think so. Mankind's evolution wont help a woman rising a child if she has to work 12 hours a day...

[MyNatalie]

You are a very interesting woman, so nice to find someone to debate with that has brains

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Is that so?
Did you ever give it a try?

Although I do know enough of immobilizing the standard human body (so it won't be THAT hard) no never. It should only ever be fantasy or consenting role play.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Why are most rapists so stupid they leave evidence behind? Does that mean men are too stupid to get away with it?
Why are animals so easy to kill? Does that mean man has the right to kill them just because we can?
Why is the planet so easy to pollute? Does that mean we should just because it doesn't cause us any effort?

Once again the fantasy vs reality thing. Just like a real victim is often hurt, torn and left with an STD and a fantasy victim end up clean(er) this discussion is on fantasy. In fantasy it is bloody hot that woman are made to be raped. The more beautiful and innocent the woman, the more she is suited for rape.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Originally men had to protect women to ensure survival of the tribe. Thanks to mankind's evolution and all its wonders this premise has been lost. Like you said - women are made to be raped in the eyes of (some) rapists, very disturbed individuals. So the notion women are designed to be raped has to be in the head of an equally disturbed person (if he/she actually believes it).

Here I have to disagree. Yes men protected the woman but I doubt that Mrs CaveGirl had much choice but to 'assume the position' when the alpha male wanted to deposit some cream in her box. Think there was a lot of rape in the tribe itself. Women in the current society has a lot more rights and freedom than ever before. In the middle ages women were tortured vaginally for just seeming to be heretics or witches etc.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Because many women enjoy this sexual preference.
Why do so many men post on a site like this? Do they all want to rape a woman?

Yes I think they do. But whether it remains fantasy or translates into reality is the dividing line between man and beast. If it was not considering morally wrong and illegal I think that men would rape women every single day.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

That claim requires further clarification.

A woman is easier to violate as she functions on a much more emotional level. Not that a man cannot be emotionally fucked up. Also, for a woman it is much more real as I think that male fantasies are much more 'on paper only'.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Depends ... many women have sexual fantasies about forceful and rather rough intercourse, for various reasons. If you read around the board you'll clearly see there's a big distinction between consentual rape fantasy sex and actually being raped.
Most women fantasising about actually being raped, getting aroused by that thought is a rumour.

And why is that, would you think. Why would a woman fantasise about being raped and then if it happens she abhors it? If one were to take real rape and remove STD's, the violence and permanent damage, would Miss Pretty have felt different if she was forced and there was no permanent consequences seeing that she had already dreamed about this? Where is the line that makes fantasy rape acceptable for a woman but real rape not (I have my ideas on this so please don't take this as a question in terms of wanting to really do it).

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

You are a very interesting woman, so nice to find someone to debate with that has brains

Thanks!
Yes indeed, I am a very rare gift to the world ...

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

Although I do know enough of immobilizing the standard human body (so it won't be THAT hard) no never. It should only ever be fantasy or consenting role play.

Naturally! I generally start by assuming people are talking fantasy only.
I think "being easy to take down" depends very much on fighting skills eventually possessed by the attacked person.
I very good friend of mine served in the Israelian army and I watched her (being about 1,60m and maybe 55 kilos) take down heavy-muscled US marines in a reserve manoeuvre. She certainly appears to be easy prey but ... oh boy!

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

Once again the fantasy vs reality thing. Just like a real victim is often hurt, torn and left with an STD and a fantasy victim end up clean(er) this discussion is on fantasy. In fantasy it is bloody hot that woman are made to be raped. The more beautiful and innocent the woman, the more she is suited for rape.

Granted.
Guys ...
So what would you say are the female attributes making a woman suited for rape the most?

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

Here I have to disagree. Yes men protected the woman but I doubt that Mrs CaveGirl had much choice but to 'assume the position' when the alpha male wanted to deposit some cream in her box. Think there was a lot of rape in the tribe itself. Women in the current society has a lot more rights and freedom than ever before. In the middle ages women were tortured vaginally for just seeming to be heretics or witches etc.

No argument there.
Of course through most of human history nobody ever asked women if they were interested in having sex before men took her for their pleasure. The alpha male mentioned above still protected his women. Today a man (hopefully that is) still protects his woman from danger as well. But for different reasons. To men (as well as women) procreation itself isn't that important any more. This primal instinct is vanishing more and more.
I was only speaking anthropologically.
And those sick wankers of the inquisition ... well, this is what happens when urge-driven animals (men in this example) take a vow abstinence, combined with a sadistic nature. I think I also ranted about giving people absolute power over others somewhere else ...

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

Yes I think they do. But whether it remains fantasy or translates into reality is the dividing line between man and beast. If it was not considering morally wrong and illegal I think that men would rape women every single day.

Don't men rape women every single day anyway? (Rethorical question - yes, they do).
But I agree ... if rape was as normal and legal as taking the bus it would happen all day long.

A woman is easier to violate as she functions on a much more emotional level. Not that a man cannot be emotionally fucked up. Also, for a woman it is much more real as I think that male fantasies are much more 'on paper only'.

I would be careful with a call like that.
The raped men I met usually take it much harder than women do.

Originally Posted by MyNatelie

And why is that, would you think. Why would a woman fantasise about being raped and then if it happens she abhors it? If one were to take real rape and remove STD's, the violence and permanent damage, would Miss Pretty have felt different if she was forced and there was no permanent consequences seeing that she had already dreamed about this? Where is the line that makes fantasy rape acceptable for a woman but real rape not (I have my ideas on this so please don't take this as a question in terms of wanting to really do it).

Well, here's where the clear distinction comes into play.
A woman having rape fantasies like the peripheric aspects (the helplessness, being forced, etc.) as well of course but: Those are only taking place in her mind while she is always safe and secure in the end since it's essentially just another consentual role-play she can always stop like for example playing a nurse for your boyfriend.
Also one can't neglect the principal sexual aspect ... no matter how much role-play, how much foreplay, how much reality is used in the scenario it always ends in sex. Sex the woman enjoys just as much as her partner does.
Actual rape however has nothing to do with consent or sex for the woman. It's about her losing her personality, her self-determination, ... she is reduced to a replaceable sex object for the attacker. In a rape-role-play she is still in control while that control is taken away from her during a rape.
One has nothing to do with the other, a woman enjoying rape-fantasies will feel as violated as any other woman who doesn't have those fantasies if raped for real.

[Sodoman]

Thanks!
Yes indeed, I am a very rare gift to the world ...

I do so enjoy reading Stern's debates.

[MyNatalie]

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Thanks!
Yes indeed, I am a very rare gift to the world ...

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Naturally! I generally start by assuming people are talking fantasy only.
I think "being easy to take down" depends very much on fighting skills eventually possessed by the attacked person.
I very good friend of mine served in the Israelian army and I watched her (being about 1,60m and maybe 55 kilos) take down heavy-muscled US marines in a reserve manoeuvre. She certainly appears to be easy prey but ... oh boy!

True, Krav Maga is a very good defence art and one if apt to get off second best. But statistically speaking I think that this is not the case of the large majority.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Granted.
Guys ...
So what would you say are the female attributes making a woman suited for rape the most?

The innocent, pretty girl-next-door type that has one amazing body and will never say yes to normal sex because she knows that she is pretty.

Also a woman I am involved with. The intensity of the fantasy of her rape is just amazing.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

No argument there.
Of course through most of human history nobody ever asked women if they were interested in having sex before men took her for their pleasure. The alpha male mentioned above still protected his women. Today a man (hopefully that is) still protects his woman from danger as well. But for different reasons. To men (as well as women) procreation itself isn't that important any more. This primal instinct is vanishing more and more.
I was only speaking anthropologically.
And those sick wankers of the inquisition ... well, this is what happens when urge-driven animals (men in this example) take a vow abstinence, combined with a sadistic nature. I think I also ranted about giving people absolute power over others somewhere else ...

Well half the allure of rape from the male perspective is taking full control of the lovely girl in question. If it was just for the penile pleasure, wanking would have sufficed!!!

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Don't men rape women every single day anyway? (Rethorical question - yes, they do).
But I agree ... if rape was as normal and legal as taking the bus it would happen all day long.

Talking more about the general run of the mill person. I have never raped a women and have not even tried to go much further when she says no. But if it was socially acceptable I can think of a couple women in my past...

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

I would be careful with a call like that.
The raped men I met usually take it much harder than women do.

And the difference in how the two sexes take is, is part of the allure. For a man it is bad because of him being the big man and not being able to stop it. A woman most probably knows she won't be able to and is under 'constant threat' of being raped out there.

Originally Posted by Sternenlied

Well, here's where the clear distinction comes into play.
A woman having rape fantasies like the peripheric aspects (the helplessness, being forced, etc.) as well of course but: Those are only taking place in her mind while she is always safe and secure in the end since it's essentially just another consentual role-play she can always stop like for example playing a nurse for your boyfriend.
Also one can't neglect the principal sexual aspect ... no matter how much role-play, how much foreplay, how much reality is used in the scenario it always ends in sex. Sex the woman enjoys just as much as her partner does.
Actual rape however has nothing to do with consent or sex for the woman. It's about her losing her personality, her self-determination, ... she is reduced to a replaceable sex object for the attacker. In a rape-role-play she is still in control while that control is taken away from her during a rape.
One has nothing to do with the other, a woman enjoying rape-fantasies will feel as violated as any other woman who doesn't have those fantasies if raped for real.

I personally think it is because of all the other aspects of rape. If it was vanilla rape (as practiced in rape fantasy movies) I think the reaction may be different in some cases.

[ego]

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

Yes men protected the woman but I doubt that Mrs CaveGirl had much choice but to 'assume the position' when the alpha male wanted to deposit some cream in her box. Think there was a lot of rape in the tribe itself.

Hmm... protection for sex. Sounds good deal. Why even call it a rape?

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by MyNatalie

True, Krav Maga is a very good defence art and one if apt to get off second best. But statistically speaking I think that this is not the case of the large majority.

No argument there.
My point being however is that women aren't "outgunned" physically in general. Just when it comes to mere strength.
They can learn to compensate that inferiority in physical strength with proper training.

The innocent, pretty girl-next-door type that has one amazing body and will never say yes to normal sex because she knows that she is pretty.
Also a woman I am involved with. The intensity of the fantasy of her rape is just amazing.

So that is your definition of a very rapebable woman.
As you might have seen on the board there are various definitions and preferences however.
I wanted to know what you would make a general rule about "women designed to be raped".

Well half the allure of rape from the male perspective is taking full control of the lovely girl in question. If it was just for the penile pleasure, wanking would have sufficed!!!

Like I said ...
I don't know a single man however who would take masturbation over actual sex.

Talking more about the general run of the mill person. I have never raped a women and have not even tried to go much further when she says no. But if it was socially acceptable I can think of a couple women in my past...

Yes, so am I. I am talking about the general everyday-guy.
Taking a woman he wants is in a man's nature. Society has simply managed to "train" men to control these primal urges and I fully agree ... although some men might (even when in a position of absolute power - in this case the legal consent to rape) restrain themselves (for a while), most men certainly would rape women all the time.
So you're not alone there.

And the difference in how the two sexes take is, is part of the allure. For a man it is bad because of him being the big man and not being able to stop it. A woman most probably knows she won't be able to and is under 'constant threat' of being raped out there.

I have to disagree to a degree here.
It's true men are raised to be "strong, self-reliant, invincible, etc. ..." while most women are already raised with the thread of being raped. So the state of mind to start with is different, agreed.
It depends on the country, city, whatever you live in however. In Germany for example women have made it everywhere in society. A woman even became the head of state. And although we're aware here of the threat of rape as well of course, most women don't wander the streets being concerned about being raped however. The female self-perception in society has changed so being raped might be considered even more cruel since many women are rather used to being in control in their entire life now.
While men feel that way generally as well ... take it away from them and they quickly develop the same "symptoms". Prison-rape for example. In many male prisons all over the world a prisoner is fully aware of the constant danger of being raped. If men feel constantly vulnerable to attack and rape they usually become even more confined and careful than women do because they have to learn that "not being able to stop it" is not an exclusive female attribute.

I personally think it is because of all the other aspects of rape. If it was vanilla rape (as practiced in rape fantasy movies) I think the reaction may be different in some cases.

While I cannot speak in absolute terms of course I disagree on that one.
From my experience it doesn't make a difference at all. I cannot exclude the possibility however that some women might react the way you assume.

[Sternenlied]

Originally Posted by ego

Hmm... protection for sex. Sounds good deal. Why even call it a rape?

Ah ... my dearest opponent ...

Well, men don't react too differently when it comes to "their women" than nature does.
Most animals that live in packs show us. The dominant male drives away (or kills) the other males as well as their offspring. The alpha male takes all the women and procreates with them, protecting them for the sake of the pack. Since we can't say with absolute certainty that animals enjoy sex for the sex itself as well we cannot assume pleasure alone is a factor too. We can't exclude it however.

To some point raises the question (I think shysnale posted): In total control of a woman ... would you share her? Or would you rather keep her for yourself alone?

Sex and pleasure is a great factor in male "jealousy". I know several guys who (although being honestly in love with their actual girlfriend) still think about eventual past girlfriends who were "the best in bed they ever had".

So ... do men protect their female just for sex alone as well? I'd say YES!

Why call it rape? I suppose you're right ... it depends on the social situation. Girls who are raised to be obedient to their men, who are conditioned to consider sex a duty to men wouldn't call it rape eventually because the concept is unknown to them. Doesn't necessarily make it right however.

[somedude]

So you think that men naturally wish to take women by force Stern and only centuries of social conditioning make us play nice?

[Sternenlied]

Not necessarily by force from the beginning.
Men want women, no doubt about it.
I am saying men want to take women and they wouldn't mind using force if necessary.
And yes ... I think most of them would use force if there weren't any legal repercussions any more. The few "evolved" ones who actually feel that forcing oneself upon a women is wrong do exist as well of course but in my opinion they're a minority.

[somedude]

True, men do want women! I know I do But I think I'm one of the evolved minority because while I enjoy rape fantasy I don't condone true sexual violence in any form.

[Sternenlied]

That's exactly the point I made earlier somewhere ...
Are you sure you wouldn't be corrupted in time?
Or - as ego might eventually call it - not "corrupted" but rather have your inner nature re-awakenend?
I suppose not.

[somedude]

Well yes, never could be 100% certain under the right circumstances that my inner caveman might not come out...