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View Poll Results: Who are you going to vote for
Obama 16 48.48%
McCain 11 33.33%
Undecided 6 18.18%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-30-2008, 05:00 PM   #21
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Neither 'cos I'm not American, however Obama seems just like Tony Blair, all smiles and superficial PR. He'll fuck up America more than Blair and Brown have fucked up the UK, and boy, have they fucked it up big time.
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by older and wiser View Post
Neither 'cos I'm not American, however Obama seems just like Tony Blair, all smiles and superficial PR. He'll fuck up America more than Blair and Brown have fucked up the UK, and boy, have they fucked it up big time.
I've got the feeling our country is already fucked. All we need now is the kiss and good-bye.


(Don't forget to turn off the light before you leave...)
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Old 10-01-2008, 02:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by MARADONA View Post
I don't like them...for me they are two big liars.
I voted for Obama not because i got fooled by his interviews...
but just because i can't vote for the republicans...
i'm a communist dudes...and i hate the war!!!


I am happy that you are an admirer of Che as well!!

I have to say though..that Che wasnt as opened minded as you would think. If he had some degree of power today he would have this board shut down. .
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:59 PM   #24
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Smile Don't be so sure...

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Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney View Post
I am happy that you are an admirer of Che as well!!

I have to say though..that Che wasnt as opened minded as you would think. If he had some degree of power today he would have this board shut down. .
He was a strange person...very opened of mind...probably more than us!
Yes like me he was against the violence...ok...but he never said anything against rape fantasies!
I remember that he used to have many girls in his house...he smoked grass...and drink rum and whiskey...
Funny detail...he had a collection of Rolex...beh at those times those watches were very cheap...
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:40 AM   #25
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So are you really a communist? Communism isnt as bad as some migh think, but its not my preferred way of life
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Old 10-02-2008, 08:00 AM   #26
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Talking eh eh

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Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney View Post
So are you really a communist? Communism isnt as bad as some migh think, but its not my preferred way of life
I know! Beh no one is perfect!!!
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:52 PM   #27
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My vote goes to Obama.

From what I understand, the policy of McCain is "I'll follow the Bush line, but with more competence". But it's his ideology, not his incompetence that is the problem. His internal policies have been guided by the 'vocal minority' evangelists with a few patent garnishes like tax cuts for the rich, ultrapatriotist rhetoric etc. The end result to me looks amazingly similar to the hard right wing goverments of East Europe: nepotism, corruption, intolerence, contempt for the intelectual elite.
Not to mention how his forign politics has managed to go from nearly worldwide support for the US in 2001. to the point where any truly democratic country and most dictatorships shun away from aligning with the "be democratic-or we shoot" policy. He has turned the outiside world's perception of America from the lighthouse of freedom and pillar of demcracy into a perception of it as the world's greatest opressor and selfcentered empire that calously slaughters milions to keep the gasoline price for their citizens under 4$.
I would rather not see these policies enforced with competence, thank you very much.

Now, I have heard criticism on Obama concerning his lacking knowledge, especially on foreign affairs and economy. I don't know about his economic credentials, but two names from his camp make me believe he knows his foreign affairs well enough to pick the right advisers: Zgibniew Berezinski and Richard Holbrooke. The latter was the architect of peace in the Balcans, which everyone, even in the Balcans themselves, believed unattainable. The former is the mind behind the fall of world communism (guess MARADONA will now take back his vote to Obama ).
If he matches this choice with a good choice of economic advisers, you Americans can consider yourselves lucky to have him as president!
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:42 PM   #28
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Angry Hey!

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Originally Posted by menace View Post
My vote goes to Obama.

From what I understand, the policy of McCain is "I'll follow the Bush line, but with more competence". But it's his ideology, not his incompetence that is the problem. His internal policies have been guided by the 'vocal minority' evangelists with a few patent garnishes like tax cuts for the rich, ultrapatriotist rhetoric etc. The end result to me looks amazingly similar to the hard right wing goverments of East Europe: nepotism, corruption, intolerence, contempt for the intelectual elite.
Not to mention how his forign politics has managed to go from nearly worldwide support for the US in 2001. to the point where any truly democratic country and most dictatorships shun away from aligning with the "be democratic-or we shoot" policy. He has turned the outiside world's perception of America from the lighthouse of freedom and pillar of demcracy into a perception of it as the world's greatest opressor and selfcentered empire that calously slaughters milions to keep the gasoline price for their citizens under 4$.
I would rather not see these policies enforced with competence, thank you very much.

Now, I have heard criticism on Obama concerning his lacking knowledge, especially on foreign affairs and economy. I don't know about his economic credentials, but two names from his camp make me believe he knows his foreign affairs well enough to pick the right advisers: Zgibniew Berezinski and Richard Holbrooke. The latter was the architect of peace in the Balcans, which everyone, even in the Balcans themselves, believed unattainable. The former is the mind behind the fall of world communism (guess MARADONA will now take back his vote to Obama ).
If he matches this choice with a good choice of economic advisers, you Americans can consider yourselves lucky to have him as president!
I just positive repped you for this post...it was nice for me...and look at you?
You negative repped me because i'm a commuist...well no words man...
i'm sorry but you will going to pay for it Menace...for your sfortune i'm not an easy guy.


I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED BY YOU...
NOW IT'S WAR




LET'S SEE IF YOU ARE TOUGH ENOUGH TO TAKE ME
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Old 10-02-2008, 08:38 PM   #29
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So what is up with Che being used as some kind of icon of peace in here?

The man was known as a butcher for having hundreds of people executed and as far as I can see he did his best to start WWIII...
Che was a man for the people and against a capitalist, oppressive governement regime, ran by U.S forces, so they can keep the third world at bay and in their backyard. The citizens were forced to keep quite while their land was raped by U.S imperialistic forces and the puppet officials of those nations did their bidding and raped their own people. Che not only gave the citizens of those nations a voice, but he gave them hope and power...to take back their nations and say fuck you to the imperialist giant that was the United States.

If he slaughtered anyone...it was those oppressors who did the bidding of the government who tortured and raped their own people.

And yes he would have started WWIII and it would have been the most heroic, ballsy thing that the world would ever had witnessed.

Vive El Che y la Victoria Siempre.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:28 PM   #30
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I understand well why the people in those countries see him as an hero but there are plenty of people from so called colonialist countries who are giving their full support to him and for example wearing t-shirts they have bought from the local supermarket. He just doesn't work as that kind of an universal symbol of peace and freedom like some people appear to think in my opinion...

Most of the people executed were oppressors as you said but he also gained reputation by having all of his men executed who tried to leave his troops and I doubt he managed to get all the facts before ordering each of those executions. I also remember hearing about Che having something against homosexuals which resulted in some of them being even killed on his orders but I might be wrong with this one.

I do not see what is so heroic in starting a nuclear war which would kill dozens of millions of people but guess it might explain why I was little confused in the first place.
I don't think like you. Probably he wans't a superhero...but he was better than me and you from a long shot.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:40 PM   #31
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I understand well why the people in those countries see him as an hero but there are plenty of people from so called colonialist countries who are giving their full support to him and for example wearing t-shirts they have bought from the local supermarket. He just doesn't work as that kind of an universal symbol of peace and freedom like some people appear to think in my opinion...

Most of the people executed were oppressors as you said but he also gained reputation by having all of his men executed who tried to leave his troops and I doubt he managed to get all the facts before ordering each of those executions. I also remember hearing about Che having something against homosexuals which resulted in some of them being even killed on his orders but I might be wrong with this one.

You have a great point. I am not one to go out and buy a Che t-shirt, cause its just not my style. Some people, mainly nationalistic Mexican Americans, wear a t-shirt with his face on it and they are all proud about it because they think it stands for Viva la Raza or Viva la Brown Mexican or something. Wrong. Che was a WHITE Argentinian, and a rich one at that. What Che DOES stand for, is freedom. He saw the social inequality that existed because of the U.S backed government. He wanted all that to change, for everyone to be equal, he wanted to liberate the people...and that is why he was a Socialist. He recognized what the U.S was doing to the countries in Central America. I mean, overthrowing democratically elected officials because they didnt suit their interest and putting a puppet in the office so that the U.S can milk all the goods from those countries? I am glad that Che said fuck you. Anybody with that amount of heart and fire to do that is a hero in my book.

You are right. Both Che and Fidel were against homosexuals and regarded it as a sin. I dont know anything about Che executing homosexuals, not that I would support the claim, but I wouldnt completely deny it.

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I do not see what is so heroic in starting a nuclear war which would kill dozens of millions of people but guess it might explain why I was little confused in the first place.
well....there are hero's of war, isnt there? And if I recall...it wasnt Che that almost started WWIII. It wasnt even him at all. He only said that if he and Fidel had had access to the nuclear missiles placed by the USSR, they would have nuked the crap out of the U.S. So, what? I mean, he may have, who knows. If I recall, it was one of the Soviet commanders who ordered for the missiles to be launched, but his men refused to do it. The U.S almost did get nuked. and it may have been deserved.

Last edited by ChiTownHoney; 10-02-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:52 PM   #32
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This is one of the things i enjoy about this board.The thread can ask a question about one thing and completely turn into another discussion.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:56 PM   #33
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Hey its all political!!
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:02 PM   #34
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just some of my thoughts on che ....

if i remember right , he played a key role in the missiles being put in cuba . you could even make the case if not for him they would not have been there . yes he fought for the people , but he was also a real son-of-a-bitch . you didn't want to cross him or do things he disapproved of , whether you were with him or against him . he has been idolized since his death , he wasn't as bad as stalin . but he wasn't this nice guy , just running around doing good either .

it's been years since i talked about him or read of him . those are just some of the things i remember ...

Last edited by touriquet2001; 10-03-2008 at 12:20 AM. Reason: fix spelling mistake
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:24 PM   #35
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Hey its all political!!
Absolutely
I makes me want to learn more about Che.I need to get a good book on him.
(side note)
They just finished a movie called Guerrilla about Che Guevara.
Benicio Del Toro is playing him.
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:16 AM   #36
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What the hell?? Benicio Del Torro is a horrible representation of Che. Che did not look like that! Che was a sexy mofo and Benicio in that pic looks like an old man (Che died at the age of 39).

You should read up on him. His life was fascinating!

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Old 10-03-2008, 12:36 AM   #37
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just some of my thoughts on che ....

if i remember right , he played a key role in the missiles being put in cuba . you could even make the case if not for him they would not have been there . yes he fought for the people , but he was also a real son-of-a-bitch . you didn't want to cross him or do things he disapproved of , whether you were with him or against him . he has been idolized since his death , he wasn't as bad as stalin . but he wasn't this nice guy , just running around doing good either .
I appreciate your thoughts very much but I must say that you are not thinking objectively...

The Soviets played Cuba as a pawn to get their missiles as close to the U.S as possible. As you recall the U.S and Russia had bad blood because of the fall out after WWII.

So....why was it a bad thing to have missiles in Cuba? Dont think as an American, but think objectively. The U.S sent exiled Cubans to the island to overthrow the Castro regime. The U.S invaded Cuba. So of course Cuba would have absolute benefit from becoming allies with the Soviet Union. Nuclear missiles on the island was absolutely the most power that Castro thought necessary to go against the U.S. Cuba was a pawn between the U.S and the Soviet Union, but still were in a powerful position.

Che had little to do with the Soviet-Cuban relationship however. Cuba had Soviet support when Batista was in power.

And I understand that Che was not Jesus.

But still, what he fought for....most of us would be so lucky to have as led such an extraordinary life...to have fought for what he fought for.

May I remind you that Che was a rich physician, who abandoned his practice to pursue a life of liberation. he witnessed poverty, inequality, and came to the conclusion that what he must do, what he must pursue, would be a world revolution. I wish I would have lived his life.

Last edited by ChiTownHoney; 10-03-2008 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:53 AM   #38
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Che was a man for the people and against a capitalist, oppressive governement regime, ran by U.S forces, so they can keep the third world at bay and in their backyard. The citizens were forced to keep quite while their land was raped by U.S imperialistic forces and the puppet officials of those nations did their bidding and raped their own people. Che not only gave the citizens of those nations a voice, but he gave them hope and power...to take back their nations and say fuck you to the imperialist giant that was the United States.

If he slaughtered anyone...it was those oppressors who did the bidding of the government who tortured and raped their own people.

And yes he would have started WWIII and it would have been the most heroic, ballsy thing that the world would ever had witnessed.

Vive El Che y la Victoria Siempre.
ChiTown,

World War Three would have been, and very well may still be, a nuclear war. Had Che or any others of the time succeeded in beginning that war, the only ones left cheering Che and waving little flags about it would have cockroaches.

I am not certain about how Che would have felt about that fan base, but then it probably wouldn't matter, because he would have been just dust and ash blowing on the wind like billions of other lost souls.

The Squid
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:57 AM   #39
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I appreciate your thoughts very much but I must say that you are not thinking objectively...

The Soviets played Cuba as a pawn to get their missiles as close to the U.S as possible. As you recall the U.S and Russia had bad blood because of the fall out after WWII.

So....why was it a bad thing to have missiles in Cuba? Dont think as an American, but think objectively. The U.S sent exiled Cubans to the island to overthrow the Castro regime. The U.S invaded Cuba. So of course Cuba would have absolute benefit from becoming allies with the Soviet Union. Nuclear missiles on the island was absolutely the most power that Castro thought necessary to go against the U.S. Cuba was a pawn between the U.S and the Soviet Union, but still were in a powerful position.

Che had little to do with the Soviet-Cuban relationship however. Cuba had Soviet support when Batista was in power.

And I understand that Che was not Jesus.

But still, what he fought for....most of us would be so lucky to have as led such an extraordinary life...to have fought for what he fought for.

May I remind you that Che was a rich physician, who abandoned his practice to pursue a life of liberation. he witnessed poverty, inequality, and came to the conclusion that what he must do, what he must pursue, would be a world revolution. I wish I would have lived his life.
you read way to much into my post . where did i comment on the right or wrong of cuba having missiles ? where did i comment on almost anything else you credit my post with saying ?

i DID state some facts as i remembered them . i thought IT was common knowledge that che acted as a diplomat and that he WAS the one that talked with the u.s.s.r. to get the missiles into cuba . same with the way he treated people he felt betrayed him or in some cases couldn't live up his ideals .

Last edited by touriquet2001; 10-03-2008 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 10-03-2008, 01:12 AM   #40
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re: the missile crisis .... the u.s. gave russia (u.s.s.r.) what they wanted to end it . cuba was just a pawn to gain their goals . we removed our nukes out of turkey and they took theirs out of cuba . neither one of us had nukes in the other's "backyard" .

i think that was one reason they allowed "us" to see them . once it was started they realized what they could accomplish with 'em .

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