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Old 01-06-2018, 12:13 PM   #521
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The people voted Sinn Fein knowing full well they would not take their seats. Had they wanted a nationalist voice at Westminster, a weak pale green one, they could have voted for the SDLP.

As to Stormont, plenty of stubbornness to go around on all sides.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:55 PM   #522
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Yes, perhaps they really voted for a voice on Twitter behaving like Barry McElduff MP? He either has very bad taste in bread, or is just a cunt. Of course we could just pretend that he really doesn’t have any clue about the murderous history of the “military” wing of his political party, and just forgive him, couldn’t we?
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:19 PM   #523
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Can't defend the indefensible, so I won't try. If the only thing he is guilty of is being incredibly dense, that alone would render him unfit for any type of leadership role.
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:39 PM   #524
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Sinn Fein has a reputation for tight party discipline, this buffoon may be in for some tough times ahead.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:19 AM   #525
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Sky News are reporting that the McElduff tweet is being investigated by the police. It doesn’t specify what for, but will probably fall under the catch all “hate crime”.

This does not sit easy with me. However stupid this mans actions are, it should not be a crime to offend. It should not be a crime to hold, or express, bigoted views or beliefs. A person should be able to stand or fall on their words, it is not for the state to decide.

There may well not be charges. But it will go on record as a hate crime, even though no
crime has taken place. I know, strange. Sinn Fein may well boot him out. He may lose his seat at the next election, or he resigns. Society may well shun him, because frankly actions like this are unhelpful.

It doesn’t need the law to punish him, because his own people will.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:32 PM   #526
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I saw a video yesterday of Jihadi Paddy being taken in to custody. In the back ground a local was heard shouting "Yah feckin' halal cunt".

Meanwhile in Stockholm, Sweden, a man has been killed, a woman injured, in what local police are describing as "not thought to be a terrorist incident". Witnesses have described the man as having picked up what is thought to have been a hand grenade, it then exploded. Obviously not terror related, I expect a local Sinn Fein MP left it by mistake when he was shopping for bread. Swedens authorities have been heavily criticised for playing down the impact of massive immigration on sex attacks.

My political prediction, "not thought to be a terrorist incident" will replace "known to security services" as the most used phrase in reports of bearded men stabbing, shooting, running over, raping, blowing up, or other wise harming citizens going about their rightful business in the western hemisphere in 2018.

I may move to Septicemia, at least there I would have the right to defend myself. For now.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:38 PM   #527
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Any way, back in Owned Derry, a suspect device was found by a flyover in Bogside this morning. The local Sinn Fein councillor has criticised those who made/left the device, saying that all they have done is disrupted the lives of local people who just want to move on from this sort of thing.

Which has been my point about the IRA all along. That they did the most harm to Catholic communities that they claim to defend.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:36 PM   #528
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The vast majority of the nationalist population has moved on from violence. The dissidents do have a stronger presence in Derry than elsewhere in the six counties, but still very marginal support.

But conditions in the bogside of today can't be compared to those that existed at the start of the troubles. The IRA did in fact defend the nationalist areas of the north from the Orange mobs and the RUC.

In 1969 the IRA was still controlled out of Dublin, the northern units existed mainly to act as a buffer against the periodic orange pogroms that cropped up form time to time. The last armed action, the border campaign of the late 1950's was mainly a southern affair, with volunteers from the republic making cross border raids on RUC barracks. It was a dismal failure. After the campaign petered out the IRA began a move away from armed resistance towards a more political, mainly Marxist focus.

When the north began to go up in flames and the civil rights movement caused renewed riots by the loyalists who were outraged the taigs were asking to be treated as humans. The IRA was unable or unwilling to respond, this is what led to the provisional/official split. in the early days I Ran Away was painted over walls in the nationalists areas.

The Provisionals were northern based and controlled. As they grew in strength the level of support they received was stronger than anything the IRA had gotten since the 1919 to 1921 war of independence. This support led the provos to move from a defensive posture to an offensive campaign. Eventually the British deployed as many as 21,000 front line combat troops backed by armored vehicles and helicopters, plus the 9,000 strong RUC, the British intelligence services and The SAS.

And yet, this "small gang of criminal terrorists" with marginal public support waged a decades long insurgency against a world power that ended with a negotiated settlement.

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Old 01-07-2018, 02:30 PM   #529
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In the 1970s (see Bobby Sands) the IRA waged a campaign of economic damage. If as is often suggested, the British were the masters of divide and rule, then the Provis learnt well under the heel of the boot of their masters.

The 1970s and early 1980s were a period of decline for the primary industries and manufacturing that used to underpin the United Kingdoms economy. As much of the United Kingdom began to diversify in the mid to late 1980s, the actions of the IRA contributed to an assurance that investors would not be putting their money in to the 6 counties. Northern Ireland got left behind. Even today economic growth and productivity is less than the rest of the UK, whilst unemployment continues to blight the community. Even as tourism grows, manufacturing growth is fragile, and could be snuffed out altogether if the EU gets its way.

So went the campaign of the IRA. It pretty much ensured that its support base would continue to support it, despite the type of "justices" it practised within those nationalist communities. The rest of the United Kingdom thrived, the provis ensured that Northern Ireland withered.

But, its attack on the working classes, on the poor, didn't stop there. It carried out attacks on the British mainland, those that really stand out amongst British people were in places like Guildford, Birmingham and Manchester. It isn't so much the high profile attacks that the British public remembers, as the pub and shopping centre bombings.

Most working class Brits couldn't give a flying fuck for Charlies uncle, or Norman Tebbits testicles.

Ultimately though, what probably can't be forgiven, ever, is how a movement that claimed to stand up for the poor and downtrodden, could massacre ordinary British soldiers from amongst the ranks. To British working class people this never made any sense, and felt like a betrayal. It pretty much ensured that on the mainland the only sympathy for the Irish nationalist cause would be amongst the naïve, and the likes of Ken Livingston, Jeremy Corbyn, and others that sought to further their own political cause. The type of people that also cheer for Iran, Palestinian terrorists, that sit down for lunch with ISIS sympathisers, and would happily promote that all working class people are stupid, racist, and bigots.

The British working class would never stand for a government that surrendered to the IRA, because what we saw in the IRA wasn't an enemy of the state, or a champion of the people. What we saw was a shadow state that aimed to oppress the people.

Your march from the Granby Triangle to the Old Pier Head cheering for Bobbie Sands MP was probably composed of students selling Socialist Worker, and Derek Hattons militant tendency.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:43 PM   #530
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By the way, you may want to go and check out channel4.com at some point and have a look at Derry Girls. It is a good series from what I have seen so far, though it is slightly annoying that the no doubt employed for his lefty leaning views announcer insists on referring to it being "set in Derry" when every one knows that it is Londonderry.

Still that's what happens when the state can't stop at imposing an officially tax funded broadcasting agency, but actually has to subsidise commercial television as well!
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:32 AM   #531
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It has just been announced that Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire has resigned from his post. Health reasons are being cited.

Probably stress from dealing with a bunch of obdurate arseholes!
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:55 AM   #532
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I've read a little more on the Kingsmill massacre. The PIRA has never to this day admitted responsibility, but an inquiry in 2011 found that they were responsible. The CPS last year decided that there was no grounds for prosecution of chief suspects in the killings.

I wonder if the refusal to take responsibility is a deliberate strategy by Sinn Fein/PIRA to ostracise elements of the volunteers that they don't approve of? Knowing that they risk prosecution and imprisonment to their dying day if they weren't provis?
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:03 AM   #533
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The IRA has never taken responsibility because the killings were not sanctioned or authorized. The massacre was carried out by members of the south Armagh brigade who had gone rogue. The IRA was ruthless but not stupid. The massacre horrified their supporters both in Ireland and the US.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:31 AM   #534
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Nothing ever proved, but there have been persistent rumours the infamous Captain Nairic may have had a hand in instigating the massacre. He was involved in similar killings of civilians by the loyalists. The theory goes that by provoking gruesome attacks on civilians by both sides that support for them both would decrease.

He was posing as a defector from the official IRA in Belfast when he was uncovered and executed by the provos.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:15 PM   #535
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Oh well, the full punishment given to any one over the killings is Sinn Fein have given McElduff three months off from the job he doesn't do any way!
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:49 PM   #536
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Again, nothing certain but rumors of punishments of
A more "eternal" meted out. Unauthorized killings were frowned upon.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:57 PM   #537
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Well, fair enough. But can we really trust this? You have claimed yourself that Enniskillen and Omagh were supposed to be mistakes, and these shootings unauthorised. What would we be told if some of the over 200 injured in the Arndale bombing had been killed? Would it still be the celebrated success we're supposed to believe it was?

Or would it have been carried out by dissidents? Or unauthorised?

There is no doubt that the people killed on Bloody Sunday were shot by the British Army. There is no getting away from that. It doesn't matter where, or if at all, the order came from.

Authorised or not, those 11 men were still shot by PIRA volunteers.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:09 PM   #538
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Had civilians died in the Manchester bombing the term used by conventional military forces is collateral damage. Kingsmill was the deliberate murder of unarmed civilians. And yes, it was carried by members of the provisional IRA. No one is disputing that.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:34 PM   #539
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Collateral damage, if that is what we have to call it, is the result when Hezbollah puts a rocket launcher on a hospital roof, and fires at civilians.

Deliberately targeting civilians where no military target exists is not collateral damage. |It is murder.

Despite not managing to kill any one, I'm sure Irish republicanism made a huge leap in popularity amongst the huge Irish Catholic population in Manchester on the 15th of June 1996.
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THE WESTCOUNTRY SHALL RISE AGAIN!

Yay! It's pink!

Don't think.... FEEL!

We're Englishmen, and we came here, to rape your women and drink your beer.

I went back in time and voted for Hitler.


Pouring oil on troubled waters since 2008. Then lighting a fucking match.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:02 PM   #540
tom8517
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The purpose of the Manchester operation was to inflict damage to the British economy, which it did. Had civilians been the target, the death toll could have easily been on the thousands . Next time ibrahim or achmed set off a bomb, with no warning you can continue to downplay the IRA phone call.

Now, I've never been to Manchester, but apparently the bombing actually sparked a boom in the local economy. Despite the short term damage, the area cleared by the explosion opened up quite a few growth opportunities. A bit of Fenian urban renewal at no charge. And 20 years on and not so much as a card in the way of a thank you.

Last edited by tom8517; 01-08-2018 at 07:23 PM.
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