Wouldn't that be seen as meddling in the Good Friday agreement, which set up the Parades Commision to decide on marches? Meddling like that by the Prime Minister would probably be more than enough to break what fragile peace is there.

It wouldn't be anything that direct. More likely a subtle hint to the Parades Commission. I believe the commission makes a decision case by case basis, each parade requires a specific application. The Orange order has been trying to get permission to march down Garvagh road for at least ten years, so far common sense has prevented that.

Isn't Garvaghy Road the place where two young (Catholic I think) boys died when their house was burnt down during one of those stand-offs? It was big news all over the world AFAIK.

Yes the Quinn brothers, and it was three, not two. This wasn't a case of collateral damage from an operation against a military target, they were the target.

The marching into nationalist areas has nothing to do with religion. Nor it is about tradition, as the Orange order claims. If they want to honor their heritage , then parade up and down the fucking Shankhill to their hearts content.
It's a tool of intimidation, it's been used for decades to keep the nationalist minority in its place.

There no daylight between the DUP and the orange order, and very little between the orange order and the UDA. These are the people the conservatives are getting into bed with. If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Well, the same could be said for Sinn Fein and the IRA, and yet there they were at number ten Downing Street yesterday, and they weren't delivering a petition either. The DUP held talks with Gordon Brown after the 2010 election, and what people are failing to grasp is that it is not going to be possible to have a government with out them now.

The Labour shadow chancellor has even gone as far as to call for people to "rise up on the streets and prevent a Conservative government", so just who is the terrorist now?

You're right, Sinn Fein and the provos were joined at the hip. I have no issue with them and the DUP coming together to restore Stormont. Its a formula that made great gains over a long time. They will never love each other, and that's ok. Arlene Foster has more cause than most to hate the IRA, her father was in the UDR and survived a serious head wound in an IRA ambush.

The problem is that the British government is supposed to be an impartial arbiter between the nationalist and unionist communities. Now republicans have never put much stock in British impartiality. During the troubles, the UDA got British rifles, republicans got British rifle butts in their balls. But now, even moderates are questioning how can the British government mediate fairly when they are partners with one of the main factions they are mediating?


It would go a long way to defuse the situation if an independent non British arbiter were temporarily appointed to take the place of the secretary of state for NI. There is precedent for this, a Canadian general oversaw the IRA's decommissioning, and American George Mitchell played a huge role in the early part of the peace process.

It will be interesting to see how this develops. The peace in Northern Ireland is perceived here to be fragile at best, always in danger of breaking down. Comparisons are often made with the flaky peace in Bosnia.

Not many would doubt that.

That both the major parties are pro-union, anti-seperatist, suggests they can never govern impartially when it comes to Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein coming to Downing Street at this time suggests they may be prepared to bite the bullet and cooperate more fully with British government. Perhaps they see this as I see it, as a chance to really govern.

Don't read too much into to Sinn Féin visit to Downing Street. May is meeting with all the parties to give assurances that any deal with the DUP won't put the Good Friday accords at risk.

Impartiality is more than the governments stand on the union. How the government handles the upcoming marching season will be telling.

Heres an interesting hypothetical, suppose Labour had been the ones needing 7 seats to form a government. Imagine the howls of outrage that the mad fenian bombers were now partners in a coalition governing the UK.

Of course there would be howls of outrage. Every time a politician farts these days, there are howls of outrage. Welcome to generation snowflake.

From a mainland Britain perspective though, you have to consider how much justification there would be. Getting in to bed with the IRA really is getting in to bed with the enemy. If the provis had stuck to kneecapping twockers and smack dealers, offing Unionist thugs and ambushing squaddies in County Armagh, most English people wouldn't give two flying fucks. How ever, ask any one over the age of 40 in Birmingham, Manchester, or Guildford, what they think, and they would probably still want to see the likes of Gerry Adams swinging by his neck from a tree. That is because the IRA actually came here and murdered people for no real reason.

Funny how people still hold grudges about things that happened decades ago, eh? *cough-cough Unionist marches cough-cough*

Personally I couldn't give a fuck either way. We're going to have a government, and we're going to get shafted by them. On a brighter note, recent events in London and Manchester have shown just how resilient, generous, and resourceful the average Brit really is. Imagine if we dropped the snowflake act and transformed that in to real action? We could do away with the need for the political class pretty fucking quick.

My main concern is how the government behaves in the coming weeks, already charges of collusion of the Belfast city council assisting in the build up for 12th celebration bonfires.

But, you are correct, the past weighs heavily on everything that happens in the north.

But, since you mentioned Guilford, lets contrast that with the bombing of the Quinn brothers home.

The Horse and Groom was a pub frequented by British troopers, that's why it was targeted. four of the five fatalities were members of the British military. I have no doubt that they were all brave young men and women serving their country. but they were soldiers, and you take a soldiers chances. I served in the US military, its the reality of todays world.

The Quinn brothers were targeted because their mother was a taig. She realized she and her children were in danger because of their living in a heavily loyalist area. She raised the boys as protestants, and sent them to the public, rather than catholic school.
But in the Orange orders eyes, born a taig, always a taig. So, because the orange order was having a temper tantrum about not being allowed to march down Garaghy road, three children were burned to death in their beds.

Back to Guilford, since the police could not find the actual people responsible, operating on the principle of "any paddy in a pinch" they scooped up four people who were guilty of being born Irish. They were tortured until they made false confessions and were sentenced to life. A shining example of British justice. Pity all the civil rights niceties you show the Jihadists were never extended to the Irish

On another unrelated case, a former British soldiers is up on charges he shot and killed a civilian. He was in command of a foot patrol, the subject ignored commands to halt and was shot dead as he ran away. As it was the subject was shot and killed. It turns out the victim was a mentally challenged person, he was frightened of strangers, the sight of a British army patrol terrified him so he ran.

In a case like this, the trooper should get full immunity. Any time a British army patrol stepped out in the north they were under constant threat of a provo ambush or sniper attack. As I've said before, full amnesty, let the wounds heal

My personal memory of the Horse and Groom is that it was a bit of a shithole, but there you go. What about all the people that drank there that weren't in the British army? Bombs, as you pointed out right at the start of this thread, don't discriminate. When the provis bombed the Manchester Arndale, I suppose they were targeting a gentleman soldiers outfitters, were they?

The Guildford Four probably shouldn't take it too personally, police in the 1970s were in the habit of fitting up all sorts of innocent people, and not just for being Irish. They were released, exonorated, and compensated. I don't recall if the people responsible for fitting them up were ever prosecuted. I'm sure Grants will tell us that, he seems interested enough to go Googling.

About those jihadists, yes, it is a pity we don't suspend their civil rights either. It has proven a pain in the back side getting some of those bastards deported or extradited. In more encouraging news though, it turns out a recent traveller to Syria has had his British Citizenship withdrawn, so he's going to find it difficult to escape when Vlad the Impaler comes knocking, and it turns out he's a citizen of nowhere! About fucking time.

Paddy Conlon, died three years in for a charge of bomb making, totally innocent. Mr. Conlon was eventually exonerated of all charges, a bit late for him to enjoy it. His last years in an English prison rather than bouncing his grand kids on his knee.

My heart bleeds.

Ah, the strange little world that is the north east of Ireland.
as the 12th approaches the orange order is in all in pieces because some one has stolen the pallets being held for the 12th bonfire. That the Belfast city council was holding them at all for an illegal event is bad enough, but now their is an uproar about who nicked them

Just so everyone understands, these aren't high school pep rally bonfires. they are massive, probably can be seen from space. Given recent events in London, thinking maybe massive fires under questionable control might be not the best of times,

The Daily Mail website have been suggesting that the DUP have been having discussions with Labour about what happens in parliament.

Corbyn and Arlene Foster, I'm sure any hand shakes after that meeting were met with vigorous hand washing on both sides.

As their high holy day approaches, orange men have their knickers in a twist over claims by Scottish gay rights advocates that King Billy may have preferred the lads to the lassies. Now, I've no issue with that, whatever you like, go for it. And the new Fine Gael Taoiseach is openly gay south of the border. His politics are shit, but what he does in the bedroom is his business.

But given the bowler and sash boys rather middle ages out look on things sexual, I can't help but enjoy this.

I doubt if Corbyn himself was involved, he's too busy being down with the kids and hanging out with wealthy tax dodgers on a farm in Somerset for proper politics.

Well, so much for Corbyn. News sources are reporting a deal has been reached between the Conservative and Unionist party, and the DUP.

The Welsh and the Scottish are bitching loudly. They're convinced the deal will give NI a bigger piece of the pie at their expense.

Yes, the SNP are complaining they should be getting more money from the treasury. I thought the point of the SNP was to be independent of the treasury. Sinn Fein are also whingeing, but I'm sure they will enjoy spending the extra money.

In other news some bright light with a keen understanding of the north thought it would be a good idea to schedule Glasgow Celtic to play in Belfast on July 12th. What could possibly go wrong there? Wiser heads prevailed and the match was rescheduled.

Last thing Belfast needs is a bunch of pissed up Sweaty Socks on any day of the year.

The deadline to install a first minister and deputy to head a power sharing government in Ulster is tomorrow. Other wise it is direct rule from Westminster.

According to Sky News, the big remaining sticking point is language, with Sinn Fein wanting "Irish" put on an equal footing with English in the province. I wonder how much of that extra £1billion that would leave after all the road signs have been converted to dual language, and the cost of converting every public information point taken out?

I also wonder how widely "Irish" is used in the province?

I'm not sure Sinn Fein will budge on this one. Recognizing Irish as an official language would be a huge win for them. The mechanics of changing road signs, place names etc. could be gradual, there would not need to be a huge money outlay all at once.

Peter Robinson has said there might be room for debate if Ulster Scots is given similar recognition. Sinn Fein is holding out for a stand alone recognition of Irish, their argument being that Ulster Scots is not a native language to Ireland. (neither is English) But there may some room for compromise on this.

As to its use, a fair number of the nationalist population speak some, a smaller number are fluent, fewer yet use it as their day to day language. It's growing in popularity though, particularly among children.

Quite a few of the present day Sinn Fein leadership with IRA backgrounds learned the language behind bars. Irish language classes were very popular in the H blocks.

Part of Sinn Fein's insistence on an Irish language act stems from promises made by Tony Blair's government. Even the DUP now admits that the British government conned Sinn Fein with false promises of a language act at a later date. This is what Peter Robinson recalled of Ian Paisley's feelings when he found out what the government had done.

“It was Ian’s assessment – and in my view an accurate one – that if the government was prepared to con Sinn Féin in the way it did, they would be prepared to do the same to us.”

He revealed how “in later life Martin McGuinness and I often spoke about the different, inexact and misleading messages we were given during earlier negotiations with the Blair government "

Well, Blair's nickname is "pants on fire".

News this morning is that the parties are still in deadlock over the language issue. If good sense prevailed, they would drop that for the sake of getting on with things, and then thrash it out in the assembly once it is up and running again.

Attachment 32903that may wind up happening. It is the sensible course. But Sinn Fein's position is that its not up for negotiation since it was already agreed to. This was in the Belfast Telegraph, NOT a paper known for it's republican sympathies.

to put it another way, I understand Tony Blair's rather distant relationship with the truth. but the fact remains, he represented the government of the United Kingdom when he made these commitments. If Sinn Fein cannot trust promises made by a Labour government, what incentive do they have to trust that a DUP/Conservative coalition will honor any future agreements?

I understand the unionist reasons for opposing it, they rightly see it as a step on the road to reunification. But since "honest Tony" wrote the check as PM, they may have to bite the bullet and cash it.

Deadline passes. Northern Ireland secretary James Brokenshire is "confident a deal can be reached". It's been six months, two deadlines, and election, a general election. Meanwhile the Queens speech has been passed, presumably without Sinn Feins opposition. Do note, complaining about a thing and actually opposing it are not the same thing.

Perhaps direct rule is the impetus these idiots in Ulster need to get their collective acts together and come up with some thing imaginative that doesn't involve what Tony Blair promised. There were plenty of people smart enough to work out Blair was full of shit long before the results of the Iraq inquiry became known - have you seen the cunt smile for a start? I'm sure the likes of McGuinness were glad to rush in to any deal that ensured not spending his dying days in prison any way.

Negotiations extended until Monday. How the fuck are the British public supposed to take this fucking government seriously? They can't stick to fucking any thing. Direct rule should have been imposed when the first deadline passed back in what ever fucking decade it was.

You know what? I'm losing my fucking mind trying to get it around the cunts in this country that belong to the political class. People are actually bleating about the fact that the most economically deprived, crime riven, socially divided region of this country has just been gifted an extra £1billion to spend. People that have moaned for decades about government spending cuts, and how fucking nasty we are to the fucking paddies. People, who to form a government themselves would need not only the cooperation of the fucking anti-abortionists, but of their sworn enemies who refuse to even sit in parliament. So they've got less chance than a chocolate dildos hope in hell of forming a government.

In the meantime, the cunts themselves in Northern Ireland, are arguing over petty language issues. Yeah, great, I'm sure some one is going to give a flying fuck what language I chose to speak when I came to shoot your fucking kneecaps off. I'm sure they'd be eternally grateful for how much money the fucking Ulster assembly spent on pidgin Arabic lessons when Harland and Wolf shut down the fucking ship yard, because ships could be built cheaper in Rosythe or Portsmouth. Or people didn't fancy going to the Titanic visitor centre just to see the latest episode of the Prods and Taigs pissing contest mural plastered all over it.

Get a fucking grip!

This was coming for a while. The fact power sharing lasted as long as it did is a testament to how remarkable Ian Paisley and Martin McGuiness truly were.

At some point, this will get sorted out. It may take a period of direct rule. Practically speaking the Irish Language Act is symbolic, whether it passes or not it wont have any impact whatsoever on the lives of anyone, republican or unionist. Another less discussed issue is same sex marriages, NI is the only place in the UK where its prohibited, or in the Republic. DUP's opposition is a bit odd considering their patron saints leanings in that area.

But I think its important to remember how personal this is for the principals involved. Its far, far different from politics in the US or the rest of the UK. As I posted earlier, Arlene Foster's father survived an IRA ambush, as a teenager she saw her bus driver, also in the UDR, killed by the IRA. On the other side, Michelle O'Neil's father was imprisoned for IRA membership. A cousin was killed in a shoot out with the SAS. Another badly wounded.

All this makes compromise harder, but at some point it will get done. But this years marching season should be one to watch.

Petty, self-inflicted grievances. Summer on the main land could be far hotter.

Typical English arrogance. The grievances seem petty to you, your opinion doesn't fucking count. The problem is that each side believes that about the other. The DUP went up in flames when Michelle O'Neil attended the annual memorial for the 8 IRA volunteers killed while assaulting an RUC barracks in Loughall. Similarly the nationalist locals are screaming that the UVF man responsible for the Miami show band murders has a banner in erected in his memory.

Until each side recognizes that the other has a very different view of history, no real engagement for the future is possible.

Doesn't count? There are plenty in mainland Britain that would gladly see every one of Sinn Fein hang, rather than have them in any sort of power sharing agreement over a single square yard of the United Kingdom. They are petty grievances because, well, those men volunteered to do what they did. Nobody made them. It is right there in your own post "IRA volunteers", "Ulster Volunteer Force". On the other hand, nobody volunteered to be in the Manchester Arndale centre the day it was blown up.

What some one right there in the thick of it may see as a legitimate grievance, well, let me tell you how it looks to the typical British tax payer. Northern Ireland has just been gifted a big sum of money which could be spent on housing, hospitals, education, or creating the Freeport the DUP so desperately want in order to boost jobs. But Sinn Fein and the DUP probably wont get to decide how to spend the money because they're squabbling over languages and same sex marriage. Hardly fucking important in the scheme of things. Now you're telling me it is in fact because daddy got shot trying to blow up a police station? How about, he fucking had it coming?

Yes, it looks fucking petty to me. Twenty years of peace and growing prosperity down the drain for some thing that happened a generation ago. If Michelle O'Neil and Arlene Foster can't keep the hatchet that Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley buried 20 years ago, deep in the ground, they want their heads knocking together and their cunts kicking right out of any form of democratic assembly. They, and their parties, don't deserve to be any where near Stormont.