Wouldn't that be seen as meddling in the Good Friday agreement, which set up the Parades Commision to decide on marches? Meddling like that by the Prime Minister would probably be more than enough to break what fragile peace is there.

It wouldn't be anything that direct. More likely a subtle hint to the Parades Commission. I believe the commission makes a decision case by case basis, each parade requires a specific application. The Orange order has been trying to get permission to march down Garvagh road for at least ten years, so far common sense has prevented that.

Isn't Garvaghy Road the place where two young (Catholic I think) boys died when their house was burnt down during one of those stand-offs? It was big news all over the world AFAIK.

Yes the Quinn brothers, and it was three, not two. This wasn't a case of collateral damage from an operation against a military target, they were the target.

The marching into nationalist areas has nothing to do with religion. Nor it is about tradition, as the Orange order claims. If they want to honor their heritage , then parade up and down the fucking Shankhill to their hearts content.
It's a tool of intimidation, it's been used for decades to keep the nationalist minority in its place.

There no daylight between the DUP and the orange order, and very little between the orange order and the UDA. These are the people the conservatives are getting into bed with. If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Well, the same could be said for Sinn Fein and the IRA, and yet there they were at number ten Downing Street yesterday, and they weren't delivering a petition either. The DUP held talks with Gordon Brown after the 2010 election, and what people are failing to grasp is that it is not going to be possible to have a government with out them now.

The Labour shadow chancellor has even gone as far as to call for people to "rise up on the streets and prevent a Conservative government", so just who is the terrorist now?

You're right, Sinn Fein and the provos were joined at the hip. I have no issue with them and the DUP coming together to restore Stormont. Its a formula that made great gains over a long time. They will never love each other, and that's ok. Arlene Foster has more cause than most to hate the IRA, her father was in the UDR and survived a serious head wound in an IRA ambush.

The problem is that the British government is supposed to be an impartial arbiter between the nationalist and unionist communities. Now republicans have never put much stock in British impartiality. During the troubles, the UDA got British rifles, republicans got British rifle butts in their balls. But now, even moderates are questioning how can the British government mediate fairly when they are partners with one of the main factions they are mediating?


It would go a long way to defuse the situation if an independent non British arbiter were temporarily appointed to take the place of the secretary of state for NI. There is precedent for this, a Canadian general oversaw the IRA's decommissioning, and American George Mitchell played a huge role in the early part of the peace process.

It will be interesting to see how this develops. The peace in Northern Ireland is perceived here to be fragile at best, always in danger of breaking down. Comparisons are often made with the flaky peace in Bosnia.

Not many would doubt that.

That both the major parties are pro-union, anti-seperatist, suggests they can never govern impartially when it comes to Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein coming to Downing Street at this time suggests they may be prepared to bite the bullet and cooperate more fully with British government. Perhaps they see this as I see it, as a chance to really govern.

Don't read too much into to Sinn Féin visit to Downing Street. May is meeting with all the parties to give assurances that any deal with the DUP won't put the Good Friday accords at risk.

Impartiality is more than the governments stand on the union. How the government handles the upcoming marching season will be telling.

Heres an interesting hypothetical, suppose Labour had been the ones needing 7 seats to form a government. Imagine the howls of outrage that the mad fenian bombers were now partners in a coalition governing the UK.

Of course there would be howls of outrage. Every time a politician farts these days, there are howls of outrage. Welcome to generation snowflake.

From a mainland Britain perspective though, you have to consider how much justification there would be. Getting in to bed with the IRA really is getting in to bed with the enemy. If the provis had stuck to kneecapping twockers and smack dealers, offing Unionist thugs and ambushing squaddies in County Armagh, most English people wouldn't give two flying fucks. How ever, ask any one over the age of 40 in Birmingham, Manchester, or Guildford, what they think, and they would probably still want to see the likes of Gerry Adams swinging by his neck from a tree. That is because the IRA actually came here and murdered people for no real reason.

Funny how people still hold grudges about things that happened decades ago, eh? *cough-cough Unionist marches cough-cough*

Personally I couldn't give a fuck either way. We're going to have a government, and we're going to get shafted by them. On a brighter note, recent events in London and Manchester have shown just how resilient, generous, and resourceful the average Brit really is. Imagine if we dropped the snowflake act and transformed that in to real action? We could do away with the need for the political class pretty fucking quick.

My main concern is how the government behaves in the coming weeks, already charges of collusion of the Belfast city council assisting in the build up for 12th celebration bonfires.

But, you are correct, the past weighs heavily on everything that happens in the north.

But, since you mentioned Guilford, lets contrast that with the bombing of the Quinn brothers home.

The Horse and Groom was a pub frequented by British troopers, that's why it was targeted. four of the five fatalities were members of the British military. I have no doubt that they were all brave young men and women serving their country. but they were soldiers, and you take a soldiers chances. I served in the US military, its the reality of todays world.

The Quinn brothers were targeted because their mother was a taig. She realized she and her children were in danger because of their living in a heavily loyalist area. She raised the boys as protestants, and sent them to the public, rather than catholic school.
But in the Orange orders eyes, born a taig, always a taig. So, because the orange order was having a temper tantrum about not being allowed to march down Garaghy road, three children were burned to death in their beds.

Back to Guilford, since the police could not find the actual people responsible, operating on the principle of "any paddy in a pinch" they scooped up four people who were guilty of being born Irish. They were tortured until they made false confessions and were sentenced to life. A shining example of British justice. Pity all the civil rights niceties you show the Jihadists were never extended to the Irish

On another unrelated case, a former British soldiers is up on charges he shot and killed a civilian. He was in command of a foot patrol, the subject ignored commands to halt and was shot dead as he ran away. As it was the subject was shot and killed. It turns out the victim was a mentally challenged person, he was frightened of strangers, the sight of a British army patrol terrified him so he ran.

In a case like this, the trooper should get full immunity. Any time a British army patrol stepped out in the north they were under constant threat of a provo ambush or sniper attack. As I've said before, full amnesty, let the wounds heal

My personal memory of the Horse and Groom is that it was a bit of a shithole, but there you go. What about all the people that drank there that weren't in the British army? Bombs, as you pointed out right at the start of this thread, don't discriminate. When the provis bombed the Manchester Arndale, I suppose they were targeting a gentleman soldiers outfitters, were they?

The Guildford Four probably shouldn't take it too personally, police in the 1970s were in the habit of fitting up all sorts of innocent people, and not just for being Irish. They were released, exonorated, and compensated. I don't recall if the people responsible for fitting them up were ever prosecuted. I'm sure Grants will tell us that, he seems interested enough to go Googling.

About those jihadists, yes, it is a pity we don't suspend their civil rights either. It has proven a pain in the back side getting some of those bastards deported or extradited. In more encouraging news though, it turns out a recent traveller to Syria has had his British Citizenship withdrawn, so he's going to find it difficult to escape when Vlad the Impaler comes knocking, and it turns out he's a citizen of nowhere! About fucking time.

Paddy Conlon, died three years in for a charge of bomb making, totally innocent. Mr. Conlon was eventually exonerated of all charges, a bit late for him to enjoy it. His last years in an English prison rather than bouncing his grand kids on his knee.

My heart bleeds.

Ah, the strange little world that is the north east of Ireland.
as the 12th approaches the orange order is in all in pieces because some one has stolen the pallets being held for the 12th bonfire. That the Belfast city council was holding them at all for an illegal event is bad enough, but now their is an uproar about who nicked them

Just so everyone understands, these aren't high school pep rally bonfires. they are massive, probably can be seen from space. Given recent events in London, thinking maybe massive fires under questionable control might be not the best of times,

The Daily Mail website have been suggesting that the DUP have been having discussions with Labour about what happens in parliament.

Corbyn and Arlene Foster, I'm sure any hand shakes after that meeting were met with vigorous hand washing on both sides.

As their high holy day approaches, orange men have their knickers in a twist over claims by Scottish gay rights advocates that King Billy may have preferred the lads to the lassies. Now, I've no issue with that, whatever you like, go for it. And the new Fine Gael Taoiseach is openly gay south of the border. His politics are shit, but what he does in the bedroom is his business.

But given the bowler and sash boys rather middle ages out look on things sexual, I can't help but enjoy this.