Fuck christianity! It's full of hypocrites!

[ctomie]

Christians are hypocrites

I believe that the title almost says it all. Christians, throughout centuries, have been preaching about love, such as compassion, caring, tolerance, understanding, respect, etc. but yet they failed to demonstrate it through their actions, emphatically. In more serious (and most) cases, they act in such a way that is opposite to what they preach. It is clear that anyone who says one thing and does another meets the definition of a hypocrite. Let's look at a clearer definition of the word:

"Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings" - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Christians, especially those who are particularly enthusiastic and supportive of their beliefs, tend to expect non-christians to hold their beliefs or at least read about them. They argued that their religion contains "the truth" or "the way to life" and so we ought to consider them with an "open heart". However, when we, non-christians (such as atheists, anti-christians, etc) ask them to consider our beliefs, which are opposite to theirs, they immediately and obstinately refused. Their reason for refusing is nothing more than the claim that we are wrong and they are right, without the need to think any further. However, if we were to make the same claim about them, they get offended.

Even if christians were to make any attempts to consider the views of non-christians, they will still do so without putting their own beliefs aside. The reason is that they have difficulty remaining neutral, and that they are close-minded individuals (who expect others to be open-minded).

[Vivienne]

Usually im no "Yes"-sayer, believe, and especially in the RR i try 2 be as controversial as i can - thats what its designed 4, true? But in this case i cant do anything other than just agree w/ U a 100%!!
And Amen!

[tom8517]

well now, isn't that a bit of poorly written waste of space. With close on somewhere around a billion christains on the planet, you have them all neatly sumed up in a parargraph or two. Do you have something worked up for Jews as well, someone else as closeminded as you about them did about 70 years ago.

I am no supporter of organized religion, the Crusades and the Spanish inquisisation are but a few examples of how badly religion can go off course. One might add 9/11 to that list, Muslims have demonstrated that they can kill in God's name as well as anyone. But your rant against Christians in particular seems a little one sided.

Sorry if you got it up the ass as an altar boy, its not my fault.

[bazuka21]

I think Ctomie and Vivinee ought to get their brains checked. Viviene, you for sure seems on your way to dungeons and depths of hell with that gothic look.

[Vivienne]

It Types "Vivienne" rather than "Vivinee", Dear!:skull-lov -- Now, as 2 the brain-check...:skull-ton:skull-big

[Janav]

I would gladly go back in time and torture every last one of the priests and other individuals who ordered and executed Malleus Malificarum and the Inquisition, as well as the crusades, with the same methods they used on women, men and children. (I imagine i'd have quite alot to do for some time)

However. Waste of space. Christianity and christians are/is as diverse as the size of the bible. My father is a christian. He's a pacifistic, loving person. I respect his beliefs, even though i don't share them. There are those who embody the goodness of christianity, and those that embody everything bad about religion and christianity in general. But those exist in every religion.

So yes, sorry Ctomie. Waste of space. Use your brain a little more next time before hitting the "new topic" button.

[Ntense]

Well, since it's over *here* and not in the Idle group I'll jump in.

Intolerant, prejudicial, close-minded, insensitive, judgemental. Yeah, that's pretty much what I've come to associate with a good number of the freaking "holier than thou" Christians I've come to know over the decades. They're damned near as bad as the fucking Muslims at times, only they don't kill people for their faith quite as much as they used to. I have met some that probably would even today. The Catholics are the most rabid about it, although some of the 'born again' pricks can be nearly as obnoxious about it.

And no, the Jews aren't like that. I guess being on the shit end of the stick for the last 4000 years has instilled a bit of humility that their militant cousins seem to have missed. I've yet to meet one that'd preach at me, trying to save my soul. They're a helluva lot friendlier 'live and let live' types than any 3 out of 4 Christians I've known.

And I say this as one of the oppressed minority. I've BEEN on the receiving end of more Christian Intolerance than any of you self-righteous pricks have been. Try it from the other side, some time. Repeatedly harrassed, and even physically attacked for my faith, IN America, TODAY.

Go ahead, TELL us about your freaking 'Christian love' (and mean it). I know better. I've read your bible, as well as Torah and a wide array of the other religious texts. You've done the same, right? (sneers) The capricious nature that the First Bible College chose for your God isn't anything I'd want to model my life after, which is why I went the other way.

[ego]

Tom and Janav, although you are right about ctomie's one-sided post, you have to accept he wanted to rant about christianity. He is not obligated to refer to every other religion in order to rant about one of them.
I mean, for example, i believe Chelsea has a bad team and gonna win no cups this year. Do i have to speak about every other football team?


Ctomie, not every single christian is the way you discribe. Other than this, welcome to the real world! :D


Vivinee sounds perfect, reminds me the greek word for pussy!! :D
Btw, i want to inform you she have had the brain check, her encephalogram was a straight line! :D

[ego]

Oh, i forgot to mention:


LIONS vs CHRISTIANS

7 - 0




:D :D :D

[Ntense]

Damn! (looks around) Did we scare 'em all off? You can come out and play, we won't hurt you! (reaching behind my back for the baseball bat...) Much.

And here I thought we were gonna have us a good rough housing in this one! I've only begun to rant... I wanna get ROWDY! I've taken crap off of you santimonious assholes for 40 years, it's payback time!

Well, hell. Let's start with the biblical flood. Cranky yet angry God gets his knickers in a twist 'cos he's not being worshiped in the way He feels is well deserved, so he floods the whole fucking planet to kill off everyone except for the chosen few. Now, now, ya can't write it off as an accident if he's all-knowing and all-powerful. He had to have CAUSED a 40 days flood 'cos his feelings were hurt. Shit like that doesn't happen every epoch, ya know, it takes a Miracle. So, what did we learn from this lesson, kiddies? Disagree with me or not grovel appropriately and you're fish food. Even the people that had never HEARD of God get wiped out for their ignorance. Hmmmm. Yes, that sounds EXACTLY like the just and loving God I've read about. What a wonderful lesson of tolerance to raise your children with! :skull-thr

DO feel free to disagree with my interpretation. I've only read the bible a couple of times, and my memory is a tad faulty.

And the lions didn't get anywhere near enough of 'em the first time around...

[Ntense]

Oh, and if you think Yahweh (c'mon, it's the same God, they stole him lock, stock and barrel from Torah) is an obnoxious and self-centered shithead, you really ought to read the Koran / Qu'ran / whatthefuckeverthey'recallingitthisweek. It very clearly says that it's open season on all non-believers (those that don't lick Allah's ass clockwise) and it's especially wonderful if you happen to off a bunch of Jews (I guess that means extra virgins later). That's what I got from the Aziz translation, anyhow. Bar none, that is THE scariest fucking religious tract I've read in my life. Religious intolerance is clearly spelled out, so there's absolutely no interpretation required. Allah is great, Muhammed is a wonderful publicist/spin-doctor, and flaming death to infidels. If you've wondered why they don't play well with the other kids, read that trash they call a holy text. Too bad they play down the suicide part unless you take someone with you...

Can I have a serving of the virgins without the side of mass slaughter? :skull-tea

[bazuka21]

the bible does say those who curse upon His (God) name and his people will be found cursing themselves and breaking their heads against the steamy hot walls of hell, apologizing and regretting in agony for their act. well again, who am i to condemn!!!

[Ntense]

Oooo, goodie, a willing victim! :D

How can I go to hell if I deny both God and Satan? I'm a freaking Taoist! So I *have* to go to your hell even though it's rather patently a way to scare the fence-straddlers into shaping up and kissing God's ass? C'mon, you can do better than that! Cool, fire and brimstone for non-believers! I love it! Well, other than the obvious paradox, though. Does that mean that the polite and moral non-believers go to heaven, even though they haven't done any worship to deserve it?

Thanks for the note! Do you know which verse so I can save it for the future? Like I'd mentioned, I have enough fantasy and sci-fi to keep me busy without reading ficticious & conflicting doggerel all over from scratch again. I like to save the juicy tidbits for future arguments. Trust me, I've had a shitload of 'em over the years. Christians (and especially Catholics) just don't know when they've totally lost the audience, and they'll drag on FOREVER unless I punctuate it properly. Guns are frowned on...

[jack-the-ripa]

Even if christians were to make any attempts to consider the views of non-christians, they will still do so without putting their own beliefs aside. The reason is that they have difficulty remaining neutral, and that they are close-minded individuals (who expect others to be open-minded).
As a Christian I resent that.
To put it simple, let me ask you something... You are given the following situation: you've lived in a mountain village for many years. You know all the paths and all the caves around the mountains. You could never get lost and you're aware of all the possible dangers. A friend of yours from a village in the valley comes to visit you. He knows nothing about the mountains and asks you to give him a tour of the place. You and your friend come to a cross in the road. There are two possible ways. Now, because you have lived there for many years, you know that the left path heads to a cave of dangerous hungry bears and the right path heads to a field of beautiful flowers and delicious mountain berries with no dager at all. You tell your friend about this and ask him to take the right path because it's safe and leads to something good, but your friend says "hey, don't be so close-minded. I think we should head left. It's my idea and I want you to take it into consideration". "What's there to take into consideration about, friend?", you say, "I know the mountains and the left path leads to danger and there is nothing good at the end of it...". But your friend: "Hei, let's remain neutral about this. It's not about knowing the place better, it's about my right to have an oppinion and my right to have my oppinion taken into consideration". "Don't you understand there are hungry dangerous bears on the left path?". "Perhaps there arent." . "There have allways been. It's their burrow. They've killed others before. Few have escaped to tell." . "But try to see it from my point of view. There's chanses that you are wrong and that the right path is the dangerous one." . "Look, on the right path there are flowers and birds singing happily, on the left one there are rocks, wilderness and maggots." . Your friend come up with argument after argument, one more perfunctory than the other.
What do you do? Try to stay neutral and take into consideration that perhaps the left path is better? :confused:

[Vivienne]

Some things have been said above upon the different big Religions and the question, wheather any of them is better or worse than the others, and which One can claim the highest body-count. Now, np 4 me: Im strictly in the spirit of ecumenism here - All gods are one god, and his name is -- Bullshit!!
In the Christianity Kids are drawn into a watertub in order 2 welcum them into the Community, Jews get a little rougher on their Adolescents w/ a knife on their most precious parts, and young arab males are promised a life in paradies w/ 13 virgins on their side each if they kill enough Jews. No wonder, the Boyz have no better 2 do than blast themselves in the air...
When ure a Kid, U seek perfection and absolute saftey in ur parents, growin' up ur told ye have 2 learn to take response on ur own now. Thats when young Women begin 2 seek a Master in their BFs/Husbands later 2 be enslaved to. Men - in a latent homoerotic effort - seek an Alpha-wolf in their Macho-bosses whom to devote their manhood... Everything, but no standing on my own pls!! The ultimate Big Brother of course is the Maker, the spirit in the sky, 2 whom ye can crawl when U drove ur live against the wall next time!
Christians crusaded all over the World, whiping out 1st the Bodys and later the Memories of their victims' ancient religions. My people, the Germans, gazed 6 Mill. Jews in the name of an odd pseudo-religious cult based on old germanic rites. The Jews treat the Palestinians not much better 2day, claiming ruins 'n' rotten stones are more worthful than human lives. The Arabs declared holy war against the rest of the World, assasinating everyone not 100% confirm w/ their line. All done in the name of the creator... their creator!
Everything is better than facin' the Truth, that there aint such a thing as an Eternity and ur rotten lives, as little and meaningless as they are, are the One and Only thing u'll ever get, and it is ur fuckin' responsibility 2 make sth outta it worth for any1 to remember!
But no, their must be anything bigger than i which i can be the Watchdog 4... not long ago some 2 dozen Amis took poison 2 ensure their free ticket in the UFO hidden in a comet touchin' Earth-orbit - well, at least they killed themselves! Osama B. + Georgie W. inflicted an undeclared 3rd World War in order 2 check who has the better line to goddy above. Religious Intoxination makes people waste their lives prayin', slammin' their neighbours Heads and - in worst of all cases - even becomin' Mods on RC!!
In each of those instances, the brain-damage is done eternally...

Pls NOTE: This was my 333th :skull-mad:skull-mad:skull-mad Post, the 666th yet 2 be awaited...
:skull-big:skull-big:skull-big

[sindyloo]

Come on people wake the FUCK UP!! Oh and Bazuka quit quoting crap you know nothing about okay?? This is HELL right now where we are.....look around and listen and open your eyes so you can understand me!?:skull-thu ;)


Yes and all that crap about turn the other cheek is Bull shit.....some guy named Christ did that years ago and the killed the poor dumb guy on a wooden cross! Fucking idiot could have called for a thousand angels to rescue him....but choose to Die for nothing!!:skull-ton :skull-ton


There is no Heaven yet for us here! We wont be allowed in it until the end of this world! So dont hold your breath okay?

Tense go ahead I will join you in teaching these people reality as they need some education so they arent fooled by these Hollier than thou Idiots out there!:skull-thu :D

[Ntense]

It's a little off-topic, but the fantasy 'war in the Middle East' was likely started by our government on purpose. When the economy is slow, they drum up a war 'cos it's good for business. It's one of the downfalls of a capitalistic society... and it's sadly pretty easy to provoke.

As I recall from back then, the official US State Department line to Saddam was "Oh, we think Middle East problems should be handled in the Middle East. We don't really want to get involved", even though they knew full well that he was using the humanitarian aid money we'd been giving him to buy Russian military hardware in large quantities. I think they were hoping he'd attack Iran, but it didn't pan out. Oops. Once George Sr. found it boosted his popularity polls, it was almost impossible to get the stupid pricks to back off from their mini-war. His idiot son is blindly following in daddy's footsteps.

Before they went in, they knew damn well that the Arabs are one of the most insular countries on the planet, and it was likely to start another fucking Jihad. The response by Hasn't Been Laid should have been expected, although realistically the casualties have been pretty mild. We kill 10 times that number on the roads here every year purely accidentally (if you can call drunks an accident).

My 2 cents on that issue...

[Ntense]

Oh, and I laugh at my philosophy as hard as I laugh at your religion, so don't take it personally. I think they're all pretty hilarious. And they're ALL either equally true and valid, or they're all just a fantasy (take your pick). You can't use your set of beliefs to disprove someone else's though, as yours aren't verifiable truth in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, *IF* there's a supreme being he's probably laughing his/her/it's ass off at the posturing people here are doing in His/Her/It's name. You can no more know the 'one true face of God' than you can know all of the knowledge in the universe, so you're looking at a tiny subset. That probably means that ALL religions are like the blind men and the elephant.

And the most bizarre holy war in recent history was the Protestants versus the Catholics in Ireland. Yoo hoo, you're worshiping the same God! Yeah, I know it was started over the Irish wanting to be out from under British rule (we have a deep understanding of that emotion), but a lot of it ended up as a holy war. WTF???

[ctomie]

As a Christian I resent that.
To put it simple, let me ask you something... You are given the following situation: you've lived in a mountain village for many years. You know all the paths and all the caves around the mountains. You could never get lost and you're aware of all the possible dangers. A friend of yours from a village in the valley comes to visit you. He knows nothing about the mountains and asks you to give him a tour of the place. You and your friend come to a cross in the road. There are two possible ways. Now, because you have lived there for many years, you know that the left path heads to a cave of dangerous hungry bears and the right path heads to a field of beautiful flowers and delicious mountain berries with no dager at all. You tell your friend about this and ask him to take the right path because it's safe and leads to something good, but your friend says "hey, don't be so close-minded. I think we should head left. It's my idea and I want you to take it into consideration". "What's there to take into consideration about, friend?", you say, "I know the mountains and the left path leads to danger and there is nothing good at the end of it...". But your friend: "Hei, let's remain neutral about this. It's not about knowing the place better, it's about my right to have an oppinion and my right to have my oppinion taken into consideration". "Don't you understand there are hungry dangerous bears on the left path?". "Perhaps there arent." . "There have allways been. It's their burrow. They've killed others before. Few have escaped to tell." . "But try to see it from my point of view. There's chanses that you are wrong and that the right path is the dangerous one." . "Look, on the right path there are flowers and birds singing happily, on the left one there are rocks, wilderness and maggots." . Your friend come up with argument after argument, one more perfunctory than the other.
What do you do? Try to stay neutral and take into consideration that perhaps the left path is better? :confused:

If I were to tell someone that 1+1=2, and he responded by saying "1+1 is NOT 2. You should be open-minded and consider the possibility that 1+1=3 (or any other numbers)! Don't be close-minded." I would completely disregard this argument on the spot, much less considering it since he is uttering a statement that is clearly/logically false.

Logically speaking, just because there are dangerous bears in the left path on a particular day does not mean that it will be the case again in the next day. But suppose that the dangerous bears will always dwell in the left path (i.e. let's suppose that it is an undisputed truth), your analogy still fails because your reasoning is based on the assumption that all christianity ideas are automatic and undisputed truths that should not be argued against, and that it is silly to call anyone who holds the truth a close-minded person.

However, topics such as the problem of evil, homosexuality, euthanasia, etc. are constantly debated among christians and non-christians. These topics (along with many other topics in life) are controversial in nature and it is hard, and definitely unconvincing, to conclude that whatever stance christians take towards these topics are logical or obvious truths. If any topic is subject to questioning, then an open-mind is required to arrive at an undisputed truth.

Christians, no matter what topics they're arguing for/against, controversial or not, never do so with an open-mind. Quite often, christians themselves have even held ideas that are wrong (and this makes sense because they are not all-knowing). Therefore, having an open mind and staying neutral is necessary. Your analogy is weak in the sense that it bears too little similarity between your "dangerous bear" argument and the issue that we're addressing.

If you're arguing that it is OK for christians to be close-minded (about any topics that can tie in with christianity) at all times, then you're probably wrong. Otherwise, I should be in agreement with you (because in this case, we would have agreed that sometimes it is reasonable to be close-minded and sometimes it is not).

[ctomie]

Well, since it's over *here* and not in the Idle group I'll jump in.

Intolerant, prejudicial, close-minded, insensitive, judgemental. Yeah, that's pretty much what I've come to associate with a good number of the freaking "holier than thou" Christians I've come to know over the decades. They're damned near as bad as the fucking Muslims at times, only they don't kill people for their faith quite as much as they used to. I have met some that probably would even today. The Catholics are the most rabid about it, although some of the 'born again' pricks can be nearly as obnoxious about it.

And no, the Jews aren't like that. I guess being on the shit end of the stick for the last 4000 years has instilled a bit of humility that their militant cousins seem to have missed. I've yet to meet one that'd preach at me, trying to save my soul. They're a helluva lot friendlier 'live and let live' types than any 3 out of 4 Christians I've known.

And I say this as one of the oppressed minority. I've BEEN on the receiving end of more Christian Intolerance than any of you self-righteous pricks have been. Try it from the other side, some time. Repeatedly harrassed, and even physically attacked for my faith, IN America, TODAY.

Go ahead, TELL us about your freaking 'Christian love' (and mean it). I know better. I've read your bible, as well as Torah and a wide array of the other religious texts. You've done the same, right? (sneers) The capricious nature that the First Bible College chose for your God isn't anything I'd want to model my life after, which is why I went the other way.

Agreed. Christians are intolerant.

I wouldn't want to argue against christianity too much because I'm sure that I'll get "jumped" by a bunch of close-minded and ignorant christians for it, like it did so in the past.

I have a section in my personal website that is devoted to anti-christianity. What I had in the first post is copied and pasted from one of the very small parts of one of my essays. There are many more anti-christianity essays in there, which I won't bother to post (trust me, I'll get "jumped" even more if I do that!).

[sindyloo]

Hmmm??? kind of a good point from both of you but still wrong sorry!?


Logic or minded type of people is not what will save you! But it is your strong Faith in the Lord or God that will keep you safe in hard times.

It is your faith that will remove the cancer that is killing you and the strong of faith were not eaten by the starving Lions either(they were killed by the gladiators), faith cant help you all the time!?:cool:

Everyone falls back on the Bible to but it doesnt work either. The word of God was passed down to us but it was written into the Bible by MEN?? It was corrupted when mortal men changed Gods words and meanings! For example look at all the different types of Bibles out there...all with different passages and words as long as they are made correct for that style of religion!:p :)

As a very WISE man once said...."Religion is a GOOD thing if taken in moderation!?"

[ctomie]

Come on people wake the FUCK UP!! Oh and Bazuka quit quoting crap you know nothing about okay?? This is HELL right now where we are.....look around and listen and open your eyes so you can understand me!?:skull-thu ;)


Yes and all that crap about turn the other cheek is Bull shit.....some guy named Christ did that years ago and the killed the poor dumb guy on a wooden cross! Fucking idiot could have called for a thousand angels to rescue him....but choose to Die for nothing!!:skull-ton :skull-ton


There is no Heaven yet for us here! We wont be allowed in it until the end of this world! So dont hold your breath okay?

Tense go ahead I will join you in teaching these people reality as they need some education so they arent fooled by these Hollier than thou Idiots out there!:skull-thu :D

yeah...fuck them.

[ctomie]

Hmmm??? kind of a good point from both of you but still wrong sorry!?


Logic or minded type of people is not what will save you! But it is your strong Faith in the Lord or God that will keep you safe in hard times.

It is your faith that will remove the cancer that is killing you and the strong of faith were not eaten by the starving Lions either(they were killed by the gladiators), faith cant help you all the time!?:cool:

Everyone falls back on the Bible to but it doesnt work either. The word of God was passed down to us but it was written into the Bible by MEN?? It was corrupted when mortal men changed Gods words and meanings! For example look at all the different types of Bibles out there...all with different passages and words as long as they are made correct for that style of religion!:p :)

As a very WISE man once said...."Religion is a GOOD thing if taken in moderation!?"

They twist the meaning of words (especially in the bible) to suit their argument, even if they have to equivocate to confuse us.

According to christians, quoting the bible always works. You can tell because they enjoy quoting retarded passages as if they are proofs. That's all christians can do - relying on a damn book.

[Ntense]

It wasn't until 1985? that the 'moral descendants' of the Holy Fucking Roman Inquisition FINALLY absolved Galileo Galilei. Gee, it took 'em just over 350 years to admit that the Earth wasn't the absolute inflexible center of God's universe, and that it indeed *does* move. No sweat, sorry 'bout that!

Of course, the way the absolution for their unjust and totally bogus charge of heresy was worded was something like this: "Yes Galileo, you're right in that the Earth moves in the Heavens. However, you'll still smoke a turd in hell for disagreeing with Us in the first place." I read the translation and was aghast that they could be such assholes.

Well fuck me to tears, what does it take to get the papal clones to admit that a book written 1600 years ago for ignorant pig herders is NOT A SCIENCE TEXTBOOK! You have belief on the one hand, and you have science on the other. One attempts to answer metaphysical questions that can't be proven, the other attempts to explain reality and is backed up by observable fact. The true geniuses that believe the Act of Creation as spewed forth is the literal and exact word of God need to keep taking their meds. Either that or God is a hell of a practical joker, and the entire fossil record is complete bullshit like a grand copy of the Piltdown Man. Hmmm. Which one do you think I believe?

Soooo, if the Pope and his cronies finally admit that they misunderstood The Good Book, how much ELSE did they fuck up on? Aren't they the infallible Hand of God? (well, to Catholics anyway) They're human, not divine, and if you believe verse and chapter only ONE person could make the claim of divine. Every believer since him wipes their ass just like we do, and their shit stinks. They fuck up, they misunderstand, and it's a bit hard to go back 2000 years and ask what the authors meant the first time around. We argue about what the founders of America wanted for us just 200 years ago and it didn't go through 13 different language translations in the meantime, AND it was written down initially.

Side topic, related to the two responses above. My parents insisted that I review the various religions, and go with what worked for me if I felt I needed faith. They were willing to explain theirs, but they didn't want to force my decision. Not all Christians are close-minded about alternate belief systems. However, I'm probably 1 in 1000 for that particular situation. Have ANY of you 'good Christians' ever so much as glanced at the Talmud or the Upanishads? Are you certain you're right because your parents told you so? Re-read the section on Galileo and the Inquisition. Shit happens, we're all people.

[bazuka21]

sindyloo you have created HELL fr yourselves coz of the choices you made in your life, just becoz ur life stinks doesnt mean everyone is gotta live in your fantasy HELL.

[bazuka21]

Ntense more bible quotes for ya my friend:

"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor a man who lies with man, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God." 1 Cor(6:9-10)

[ctomie]

sindyloo you have created HELL fr yourselves coz of the choices you made in your life, just becoz ur life stinks doesnt mean everyone is gotta live in your fantasy HELL.

Not fantasy "hell"...but fantasy "rape".

[Ntense]

"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor a man who lies with man, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God." 1 Cor(6:9-10)
Ohhh, I love that verse from Corinthians! That was the one I was trying to remember, thanks!

Although it had me confused. God is pissed at gay men, but lesbians are just peachy? Does God watch Howard Stern?? "Lesbians, Jay, ya gotta have more lesbians on your show! Everyone loves lesbians!"

I'm damned on three counts, then. Yep, I covet your hot wife. I'm not gonna do anything about it, but the desire is there nonetheless. Reviler: dead to rights, but only rarely (like right now in this thread.) Do I get credit for being polite most of the time? I'm guessing 'abusers of themselves' is describing masturbation. Oh, shit, we're all going to hell! :D

I'm safe on the other counts. No 'fornication' (it used to mean screwing a prostitute), hard limit on adultery, not into gay male sex, and I'm not a thief, a drunk or an extortionist except for play times. Am I protected from idolatry since I don't worship false gods, or damned 'cos I don't have a plastic Jesus on the dash?

I'm still screwed with all 7 Deadly Sins, though. Lust: yes, please!, Gluttony: only at holidays, Greed: check, Sloth: yeah, when I get around to it, Wrath: I think that's a yes, Envy: done that, Pride: damn straight!

The Catholic church has a longer list of 'Mortal Sins' that you're damned for unless you say 7 Hail Marys or some such. A good deed balances out a bad? How convenient for them... Since Catholics don't rule the Christian God racket, can I skip their list? I've taken more crap from obnoxious Catholics than from all other religious nut groups combined. They also rank up there with the most frequent liars I've ever met. I guess that's not a sin for them.

Have you truly repented your sins if you know you can fuck up later and merely say 7 more Hail Marys?

And does it bother anyone but me that the Catholic priests that are the moral guides, interpreting the Bible for their followers are buggering little boys? Are they twisted 'cos they're not getting enough? They need to talk to the Mormons... those folks ENJOY sex. Well, at least up until they hit their magic number of souls, anywise.

Awwwww, who gives a shit as long as I'm happy, well adjusted and I don't eat my neighbors!

[sindyloo]

Awww Bazuka??? There you go...Judging others without knowing them!:skull-thu

My Life is fine by me and does not stink at all thank you! Here is a quote you passed over I think?? Matthew Chapt 7.verse 1...."Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

I am okay with the way I have lived my life...it has been open and honest so far there has been moments of shame and despair. But at least I don`t put on airs and pretend to be perfect.

The last perfect Christian was a jewish carpenter who died on a wooden tree for all of man...so that they may have a chance at everlasting life!:D

My hell was not a fantasy by the way, open your eyes and look around at todays world.......Notice anything?? Anything at all??;)

[Ntense]

OK, I mentioned it briefly earlier, and it's time to put this 'Creation Science' crap to rest.
I'm gonna kill Adam and Eve. Fuck 'em: it's a fairy tale, they won't mind. :D

Instead of reading from that mangled and cobbled-together bit of plagiarized trash you call a Bible, let's begin with a familiar passage from Torah. Oh, you haven't read Torah? (mutters about closed-minded assholes) Sure ya have! Read on...

1:1 IN THE beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said: 'Let there be light' And there was light.
.... (it drones on from there)

Are you seeing a pattern here? Does ANY OF THIS sound vaguely familiar? Well, here's the difference: the descendants of the people that WROTE the passages you 'Christians' stole 800 years later don't take it as the literal 'Word of God' on how everything came about. It's a nice fucking 'feel-good' story, but it has *nothing* to do with Science. Sure, the Jews believe it's the 'Word of God' as handed down to Moses, but it's not a recipe, it's allegory.

Do you suppose that Moses even had the words to understand what God actually did? Fat chance, we barely have the concepts to understand 'Creation' today. Moses was NOT a rocket scientist 3400 years ago, he was a mud farmer. He had pricely the same chance of understanding the real 'Creation' that my underwear do of suddenly appearing on the other side of the universe. They had NO understanding of fossils back then. They thought they were recent magical animal bones up until a few hundred years ago. So God says to himself: "Self (capitalized, of course), this ignorant shit shoveler doesn't have a clue, so We will tell him something he can understand."

It couldn't have happened any other way. You can't tell someone a story if they don't have the language and concepts to understand it. Period.

So, how does He explain Divine Evolution (God's actual Master Plan) to Moses the chicken plucker? He blows it off and gives him another feel-good story. At this point, Moses has the actual 'Word of God' as he understands it, but it means *nothing* as far as science goes. Fossils are real: get over it. Sticking your head in the mud puts you in the same company as the pricks in Rome that still insist that Galileo burn in hell for disagreeing with their idiotic mis-interpretation of 'God's Plan'. THEY couldn't bang two rocks together, but YOU don't have to be that brainless.

Put down the beer and the Bible, and pick up a Biology textbook if you what to know what happened in the History of Man. Anything that came from Genesis in Torah was a fable told to a pig herder, and it's not what God actually did. Adam and Eve are a fantasy to explain how people came about, THEY DID NOT EXIST IN FACT. I'm absolutely certain that God got a belly laugh off of it later, and he's probably distressed today when you fatuous slobs ignore the brain He gave you and would rather listen to the Grimm Brothers Fairy Tales.

And don't EVEN get me started on whether evolution is valid or not because we haven't found 'the missing link'. When you bring me the pencil stub that My Lord Elvis used in second grade, you have the right to piss and moan about it. Until then, we have NOT dug up the entire surface of Africa, only tiny sections of it. We've found a continuous chain of evidence of the evolution of man. UNTIL SUCH A TIME as we've mined Africa to a depth of a few hundred feet ENTIRELY, we will never have each individual step in the sequence. Evolution is real, Adam and Eve are fiction. If you can't understand the difference between Faith and Science, then you shouldn't be voting. If you truly believe that your Faith *is* Science, then you need a rest in the padded room. Take a number, there's a line over there.

And keep your damn fairy tales out of MY public school science classes! Send your kids to bible school if you want that crap force-fed to them. You have EVERY legal right. Personally, I hope they pull a 'Lizzy Borden' on you if you twist their little minds that far. You stopped feeding Santa Clause to them, so stop treating the Bible as a textbook. Think a little. You are NOT as ignorant as Moses was 3400 years ago, so act like it.

(do I get a cookie for the longest ongoing rant, or did someone else beat me?)

[Ntense]

Jeez, I'm surrounded by wimps! (thudding a truncheon into my hand for effect)
Don't we have anyone here that's willing to fight for their beliefs, or are y'all the 'turn the other cheek' non-violent types??

C'mon, kids, you're in the Rowdy Room! Rip me a new asshole if ya dare! :skull-ton
I'm just *itching* for a bit of rousing argument... any takers?. :skull-big

The silence is deafening...

[ego]

Probably noone is better than you in posting useless crap. I mean you wrote more shit than all texas' cows could ever produce.

Anyway, if you want a fight i'll give you one in a few days. You see, i want it to be fair, so i asked a doc to remove my brains.

[Sternenlied]

Jeez, I'm surrounded by wimps! (thudding a truncheon into my hand for effect)
Don't we have anyone here that's willing to fight for their beliefs, or are y'all the 'turn the other cheek' non-violent types??

Well, we already had more than one discussion about beliefs and religions. They always turned out the same way ...
Since this is in the Rowdy Room I take it there never was any intention for a reasonable discussion and I just have no interest in a fight over people's personal beliefs.
So sorry to disappoint you but maybe some of our "believers" just don't care for a fight.

p.s. As some once said:
I would love to duel with you mentally but I can see you're unarmed.
:)

[ego]

Plus, it seems you are confused. You cant even difference christians and jews!!!
Since you hold a truncheon you can help yourself with the new asshole!


I would love to duel with you mentally but I can see you're unarmed.
Hey, that was better than mine! :D

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

Probably noone is better than you in posting useless crap. I mean you wrote more shit than all texas' cows could ever produce.

Anyway, if you want a fight i'll give you one in a few days. You see, i want it to be fair, so i asked a doc to remove my brains.


lol nice ego nice !!

[Ntense]

Sure I can tell the difference between Jews and Christians!

The Jews came first, and they've murdered a hell of a lot fewer heretics than the Christ bullies have, even though they had twice as long to do it in. What little I know of ancient Jewish history suggests they did most or all of the killing defending their turf against barbarians. So, of the two camps I'd side with them just on general principles: they're less likely to murder me if I live next door. They follow the "love and compassion" part of Torah (and it's sad copy the Bible) better than the Christians do, no contest.

The Jews didn't invent the line "Suffer ye not a witch to live!" It's not their style.

In fact, the major difference between the two seems to be one asshole Carpenter that stirred the lot of you into some sort of Unholy Blood Lust against the rest of us. Hmmmm. Was that the Coming of the Son of God or the fucking Devil?? Look at the results. The only bunch of vicious bastards that are more dangerous than the Christians are the asshole Muslims, and they add yet another Devil to the mix: Mohammed. Presuming you haven't read 'The Holy Quran' either, it's also a hacked-up copy of Torah. I see that Mohammed needs a LOT more blood sacrifice than The Demon Jesus before he's sated, though. The Quran blesses killing all heretics, and they'll happily do it today.

Side note for those arriving late: I'm a fan of philosopy, not religious fantasy!

Since all three major religions derive from the same book, you'll excuse me if I occasionally get them mixed up. Basically, you're all either Jews or socially disturbed Jews that didn't read your book properly (or buggered the translations). As you all started from the same root, you're all worshiping the same God and it's merely the details that differ. Oh, and the two separate demons demanding that heathens die for the latter two religions.

Admittedly, the Christians have gotten a little less bloodthirsty in the last 300 years, BUT YOU'RE STILL ATTACKING HEATHENS. Believe me on this, I'm one of the heathens! I've taken more shit from people that think a story told to a goat herder is The Ultimate Truth of the fucking Universe. I've also been physically attacked by Catholics (the extreme militant pricks of the Christ gang). I have a special place in my heart for them. (reaching for the .45)

Well, it looks like the only riposte I'm going to get is inane personal insults. I guess reading that worthless crap and believing it truly DOES do some damage. Feel free to hack away at your brains, it can't possibly do much harm to your debating skills! :D


And for the record, I'm not a Texan. That's reserved for those that have lived here for 3 generations or more. I'm a recent import, and simply moving here doesn't count. To quote one Texan: "Just 'cos ya put yer kittens in the oven don't mean we call 'em muffins!"

Aw well, it was fun while it lasted! Smile, and laugh with all of us! (hands out beers all around)

[Sternenlied]

Poor guy ... you've had trouble with Christians?
Well, I have been raised Catholic, went to Catholic school where I got the Bible caned into me for years by people who claimed to be doing the work of "Our Lord Jesus Christ" for the love of God. So when I say I am a sceptic you may very well believe me.
As a friend once put it: I'm a "Recovering Catholic".
So I'm not a "believer" in the sense of the five major world religions but I am not an atheist either. Neither do I hate religion or people who believe.

What is with the complaining about personal insults? Do you really think people who DO believe in one of the religions you so vigorously attack might not feel insulted on a very personal level? The only difference is that you hide your insults behind "criticism" of religion.

And by the way: If you want to have a reasonable discussion about religion just tell me and we may meet in the chat, open a thread - or whatever - and have it. I'm quite sure people would like to join.
But judging by your choice of words when talking about religions I have to assume all you want is to pick at religion and people who believe in one of them. Doesn't really sound like "philosophy" to me ...

[ego]

Sure I can tell the difference between Jews and Christians!....................................... .........Since all three major religions derive from the same book

See what i mean? ;) The old one is not the same book with the new one. The old testament for christians is just history, while the new one for jews is just wrong!
Now, if by third major religion you mean islam, what can i say? Have you ever heard of the Koran?


BUT YOU'RE STILL ATTACKING HEATHENS
If by "you" you mean me or stern, i have to inform you i (we, i believe) worship Gaia, Thunder or Rain way much more than i worship god (and by god i mean the way he is described into bible). I guess that makes me a heathen also.

And for the record, I'm not a Texan
I really dont care. If i was, i would be a racist and i am not.
I spoke about texas' cows cos i know there are many there.


Anyway, i think someone cant make a philosophical conversation with a believer or a non-believer.
Believing is dogmatic, means you accept without think out and that is controversial with philosophy.


And thanks for the beer!

[Ntense]

Wait, I came in here for an Argument!
Oh! I'm sorry, this is Abuse. You want 12a, next door.

http://i15.tinypic.com/6h8i78n.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y05EmK66Gsk)
Stupid git...

click the image for the YouTube video :D

[tom8517]

:rolleyes: What exactly are you trying to argue? Did you expect a rousing defense of Christianity in particular, or organized religion in general on a rape fantasy site? You have a special vehemence for Catholics, and claim you were attacked, did a nun beat you up? :D Or were you chased down and pummelled by octagenarian bingo players?


In fact, the major difference between the two seems to be one asshole Carpenter that stirred the lot of you into some sort of Unholy Blood Lust against the rest of us. Hmmmm. Was that the Coming of the Son of God or the fucking Devil?? Look at the results. LOL, did you consume some of the more exotic desert vegetation before you wrote this stuff?

Like Stern, I was raised a Catholic, but have not praticed it for years, no one has tried to make me go back. :D There are no killer Albino monks peeking in my window, or yours! You may have read the Da Vinci code a few times too many. I'd be interested to hear the details of you being "attacked" by Catholics.

The ferocity with which you attack Christians reminds me of the unnatural hatred the Klan feels for Blacks, I suspect it stems from the same source, fear. What is it about Christians is that frightens you so much?

In your rare lucid moments, you mention the evolution vs creationism debate, again no one is arguing with you. Evolution is a fact. You seem desperate for someone to support organized religion, so you can attack them, no one has. But the rest of us are content to leave them alone.

You also wrongly identified the recent conflict in the north of Ireland as a "Holy War", which it was not and really never was, if you would care to have a rational arguement about that, I would be glad to oblige.

[Vivienne]

Now, Tom, as ye said U were raised Catholic im just curious -- have ye ever had Dreams about rippin' a little Boy's Ass off?!:confused: Might be Clichee-thinking im aware, but the're sooo many Catholic priests enjailed right now just 4 that...
-- And U can tell it freely here, if true!!

[touriquet2000]

my 2 cents , i am a christian , a gnostic christian . i think the bible is ,(if you take the good and ignore the bad), a good book to live by . yes i do pick and chose !!! i do not like nor will i support any organized religion , but i do encourage people to be spiritual which as i see it is try to improve ones self . i do not believe that jesus was real , i believe he was meant as a teaching tool . i think most of the bible was meant to try and control us . and i'd have to say overall it worked . these are just a few of my beliefs , not all of them . I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORCE ANY ONE ELSE TO BELIEVE THEM . nor does anyone else have the right to try and force me to believe the way they do . and that is my biggest problem with christianity . i don't need to hear about your god when i'm shopping , nor do i like you beating on my door or any of the other things you do to try and condemn me to hell for not believing as you do . just my 2 cents thank you for letting me share it .

[tom8517]

Now, Tom, as ye said U were raised Catholic im just curious -- have ye ever had Dreams about rippin' a little Boy's Ass off?!:confused: Might be Clichee-thinking im aware, but the're sooo many Catholic priests enjailed right now just 4 that...
-- And U can tell it freely here, if true!!


Ah,viv, as witless and off topic as always. Its good to know there are some constants in our ever changing world.

[sindyloo]

Ahem Tour2000.......yes they can cram their religion down anyones throats they please to!

Crusades and even forcing the nasty heathen natives here to conform to Christ...or Else!!:skull-evi :skull-big

[touriquet2000]

ok sindyloo ... yes they can try , but i do not have to go along with it quietly . i have the choice of being like some of those victims and sticking to my beliefs to the death .

[sindyloo]

Well dear you are a rare person then....Truly Honest and unusual but nice a good example to others! THANK YOU!!:D

[touriquet2000]

lmao yeah well it is easy for me to say that right now . if i was being tortured , being forced to give up my beliefs , who knows i might crumble like a house of cards . i hope that never happens to any of us . ;) :D

[Emily Johnson]

A very interesting discussion. I think all religions have hypocrites in them. Most religions were founded when society had very different concepts of right and wrong. Slavery was considered perfectly fine in most ancient societies, but today we find it morally reprehensible.

That is why fundamentalists are idiots. Because they don't recognize that the Bible, Koran, or whatever, simply does not work as an "absolute" guide for living in today's world.

Wisdom for the day:
Religious wars are simply arguments about who has the best invisible friend.

[sindyloo]

Ohh??? good point Forbidden!!:skull-thu :skull-thu

Cast off the childess things of youth and put on the proper cloak of a Adult!

In other words....Learn to Think For YOURSELF!;) ;)

[ego]

Slavery was considered perfectly fine in most ancient societies, but today we find it morally reprehensible.
Slavery has a lot of meanings. There have been societies in which slaves were what we call workers (preferably immigrant workers) nowadays. I mean their master had not the right of killing them, or even torturing them. They were paid and living with dignity. They had no right to vote tho, neither they could own land, they were not considered as citizens of the state, they had no access to weapons (that was considered as a great honour).
But they could go to war to secondary employment, like carrying the equipment or just row on the ships. They could even rewarded with achiving citizen status if were really brave on the battlefield.
I think most slaves were like this (or a bit worse) until Europe discovered Africans. The real shame began then, and it shows how christians can be worst than heathens ;)

Nowadays, is about the same with emmigrants, they build everything but own nothing but their body (and that, not all the time). We actually use them for our progress and for a small salary and if only they work really hard and with bloody savings they can acquire something.

So, we still have slaves; but we give them another name, a politically correct one. We are not civillized yet.

[sindyloo]

Excellent point and so well thought out! You are a Very Smart as well as a deep thinker Ego it is a pleasure to have men like you around!:skull-thu :skull-lov

[Sternenlied]

I also went to a catholic school except i wasnt caned so im intrested to know why you belive what you belive just because you were forced to as a child you should be old enough to make your own descions in life.

Whew ... took me three tries to formulate an answer that doesn't include any insults ...

Well, I'm no longer a Catholic and - as I said - I don't believe in any of the five major world religions ... so I guess I already made up my own mind ... maybe next time you should think about what you read before you write an answer.
There are things I believe in but (before you ask) they are none of your business.

[Ntense]

(grin) I take it you didn't notice that my posting style wasn't QUITE like normal. :skull-evi I usually go berserk on anyone attacking another's beliefs, in fact.

ctomie started the whole thing off shouting, so I figured I'd continue in the same vein. He(she?) wasn't strident enough to suit me, so I figured I could break loose with a nice tirade. I haven't thrown a rant about religion since I was 14 or 15; it's all for show. This IS the Rowdy Room! :skull-bee Out of the hundreds of lurkers here every day, I may have made one or two sit up and think for a moment before going back to grazing. That's all I was trying for. ;) It's a rare person that honestly considers the other person's point of view or beliefs.

Although yeah, in reality I most certainly have been physically attacked, infrequently persecuted, repeatedly preached at (save it...) and told I was going to Hell, which amuses me to no end. I let it wash right by for the most part. The attack was from a handful of Catholic hoodlums that thought I needed a good infusion of their God while at Boy Scout camp. They were literally trying to drag me kicking and yelling to their Sunday service. I fought back with every dirty trick in the book, but the odds were ~6:1. I'd finally gotten them to understand that if they didn't tie me up AND gag me (they *did* try :D ) that I'd make a complete mockery of their worship. Finally one of the adult leaders came by to see what the ruckus was and sent the Hitler Youth on their way. I have a VERY dim view of any parent that brings their children up to think that's acceptable public behavior. If they had been adults, I would have absolutely insisted on jail time. There is NO excuse for religious violence.

Anywise, I was just having some fun, stirring up a bit of conflict. None of it was ever intended at any person.
I singled out a couple of specific sects, but I had to pick on *someone*. :skull-win

[sindyloo]

You MEAN it was all your perverse Sense of....FUN???


Why you lowdown...sneaky Varmint!??? You just better Watch IT MISTER

OR???? You are going straight to "HECK!!!" :skull-thu :skull-big :skull-big

[Ntense]

You MEAN it was all your perverse Sense of....FUN???
Sure! I've done similar stuff over the years, though not in 'rant mode'.

I spent 3 hours on a park bench in San Francisco one day talking to a couple of Moonie recruiters. I had some time to kill before the bus showed up to take me back to the airport. Conservatively guesstimating, I must have saved at least 20 people from having to listen to their cult trash that day, and may have even saved a soul or two. :D Hey, I was bored!

I make a point of inviting in the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and other door-to-door God salesmen at every opportunity for the same reason. It ties them up so they can't get to YOU that day. :skull-bee

I figure I'm doing a public service. :skull-sai No, no, you don't have to pay me!

[touriquet2000]

to bad you not in my area . seems like once a month , if not more they come round pounding on the door .

[Ntense]

Why you lowdown...sneaky Varmint!??? You just better Watch IT MISTER

OR???? You are going straight to "HECK!!!" :skull-thu :skull-big :skull-big

Isn't that from South Park, or am I getting my cartoons confused? Something about a demon from Heck, where people go when they're not quite damned enough for Hell...

Sounds good to me! Do you think they serve chianti there, or am I stuck for eternity with the House Red?

[sindyloo]

Good guess Tense! Naw that good stuff is for them up there freaking goody types!:skull-tic :D

[Akirana]

i just think that most people interpret their believe wrong... that constant battle about my religion is better then yours... while a mutual thing in most religions are that you should love the person next to you is it not? i think it's supposed to make you live in harmony... and i think that's where most people go wrong... so there either ignorant or just deny the fact that harmony is what is preached and ignore it with all they got
just my 2 cents about it :)

[sindyloo]

Damn good use of 2 cents!!:skull-thu

If I catch your thought right, then we should all get along and support each other no matter what our religion is!?

After all we are human beings and the only species of our kind on this planet!;) :D

"So Come on People Now! Help your Brother, and Lets all Live together now in Love and peace for everyone":skull-lov

[Akirana]

"So Come on People Now! Help your Brother, and Lets all Live together now in Love and peace for everyone":skull-lov
you forgot harmony ;) lol
love peace and harmony ;)

just wish it was that simple... with all of our pre conditioned minds set to believe certain things and not to believe other things... shit... as much as i hate to admit it even i am pre conditioned... and it's sad... really....
it's just puzzling that a religion preached peace love and harmony... but wage war on other religions... so with this said... the people that are guilty of this FACT!!! are hypocrytes and not true to there religion... wich means that the majority will end up in hell lol :D

now there's an enigma for ya ;) :D

[Ntense]

you forgot harmony ;) lol
love peace and harmony ;)

OH. It's *harmony*... I always thought they were saying 'hominy' and couldn't figure out what grits had to do with whirled peas! :skull-con

Yeah, the utter silliness of thinking that your immortal soul WON'T take a stain if you harm non-believers always stumped me. If we're all God's children, then God doesn't care about which book you read out of, as long as you get the gist of the lesson. Even wildly different religions have a central core or theme that's common to all: kindness, tolerance, truthfullness, non-violence and respect for others. That's in EVERY religion! (well, we won't count Satanism and a few oddballs, OK?) Some foolish mortals get all hung up on a specific phrase that doesn't mean what it did 3500 years ago and 12+ translations later. I can pretty well assure you that God isn't anal-retentive, and won't give a hoot if you can't quote chapter and verse at the Pearly Gates.

Here's a fun game with translations: pick a sentence or three out of your favorite holy book, run over to http://babelfish.altavista.com/ and translate it into French then re-translate the French back to English again. If you can recognize the result then you're doing better than most folks.

[sindyloo]

Thanks Ntense we have a fun game like that here in the states too.

You get as many people as you can in a circle then the first person passes on a simple sentance. By the time it gets back to the first person you cant tell its the same anymore??:skull-thu :skull-big


Oh and....."selamun aleykum"!!!:skull-sai :skull-sai

[ego]

We have this game also Sindy!
We call it "the broken telephone"!

[sindyloo]

awww Cute ego!!:D

I am going to lick you all over until you Yell "Enough"....just for that!!:skull-thu :D

[ego]

Ok. I dont understand why you liked that that much, but i just cant deny such an offer!
Btw, i think i cant spell "enough"! ;) :D

[Akirana]

i do believe in something tho... that's the infinity of the universe... you where created in the image of the infinate... there for there are infinate options you can choose out of... in an infinate time frame...
if you exist now you have always existed and always will exist...
yes people... there is hope! lol
so relax :D

[sindyloo]

Hmm are you Buddist dear?? You know the concept...reliving life in different forms until at last you reach perfection and then are allowed into heaven!??;) :)


The bible most religions follow is full of unexplained mistakes so it is confusing. Other than the New testament teaching of Love one another no matter what!?

But true religion would include love and kindness for ALL living creatures not just Humans! For all were created by a supreme being!:skull-lov

[Akirana]

i don't really have a believe system lol... i just pick from whatever religions what i like about it and put it together to form my own kind of believe :)

[touriquet2000]

i highly recommend looking at books by Timmothy Freke . his writings are the basis for my belief system . here is a link to a Gnosticism help site ...

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=31837

hope someone enjoys it !!!! and no i'm not trying to force my beliefs on you . look or not as you please ....

[Akirana]

sorry man... can't find that dude on the site >.>

[Akirana]

i'm looking more into this lately... if you wanna read this is the link:
http://www.spiritofra.com/Ra-section%201.htm

[ego]

i do believe in something tho... that's the infinity of the universe..
Sorry to destroy your dream but......you really believe in the only thing that is actually proven wrong?? :D :D :D

[touriquet2000]

no the link is just about the different kinds of beliefs . here is his homepage

http://www.timothyfreke.com/

but i read his books , haven't been into the site much . thank you for the link , i'll check it out . :D

[Akirana]

Sorry to destroy your dream but......you really believe in the only thing that is actually proven wrong?? :D :D :D
and how was that proven wrong? being has no limits to it... if a so called infinite god has created us in his image... then all that is in excistance is infinate too isn't it? :P
anyways... i'm not trying to defend my opinion... just saying what i feel to be true :skull-coo and accept that others might not share my opinion but i still have great respect for all of you :)

[sindyloo]

Sorry Akirina but you claim to be a philospher??? Surely then you have Heard of the Titans?? The oldest of known Gods who in turned Fathered the new Gods....Zeus, Apollo.Athena,etec etc..And who in turn where Killed by their offspring!!:) :)


And how do we know for sure that this new God calling himself Yahweh?? Is not another offspring of a older God!??

We were all created by something?? Who is to say that God...was not created himself??:eek: :D

[Akirana]

lol... i don't like the term god... has too much definitions on it... i'd rather call it a being cause it's an open minded term :P and yes... i have heard about the greek gods :) but i was referring to the way i hear alot about... wich is an infinite god :P
didn't hear about the new god tho...

[Becka]

didn't hear about the new god tho...

Yes you have sweetie. Yahweh: The one and only God of the Old Testament ... the God of Abraham ... the god of the Hebrews who the Christians know simply as God after the New Testament...

B.

[ego]

and how was that proven wrong?
Simple (?) physics. I think its not a good idea to quote a theory that i hardly understand in my language, but the result is that exactly: Universe is finite.


being has no limits to it...
I seriously doubt this. I accept that nothing can be totaly lost, it remains (as energy) for ever, but being for me involves mentality and energy has none.


if a so called infinite god has created us in his image... then all that is in excistance is infinate too isn't it? :P
Sounds reasonable. I dont doubt the conclusion, i doubt the assumption. Because i believe that it was people who created a god to their image....you can see in most of His sayings that he has some really humanly characteristics.


just saying what i feel to be true :skull-coo
Now you rock! :skull-thu
If you feel ok, everything anybody says is useless! ;)



And who in turn where Killed by their offspring!!:) :)
Sindy, gods are immortal! Where your mind was when i said that in class?? :D :D

So, they are not dead, just imprisoned deep in the earth!

For them who like games, "Age of Mythology: The Titans expansion" is a nice way to set them free. But be careful, you have to drive them back afterwards! :D

[ego]

if a so called infinite god has created us in his image... then all that is in excistance is infinate too isn't it? :P
I dont doubt the conclusion, i doubt the assumption. Because i believe that it was people who created a god to their image....


Hey, something else came in my mind! You write rap lyrics, dont you? Here are some lyrics from a greek rap group:

From my small mind
a great blasphemy rises;
that even the great god
a small mind's creation is.

:)

[Akirana]

thanks for the nice discussion about the subject... i was feeling a bit offended or something earlier but then my mind kicked into action right away... as my "ego" felt like it was threatened... my "other" self was saying: hey... if you think this is true... then you don't have to defend yourself.. so i just gave the explanation to further clearify on what i think :) without being offended :P
it's amazing what a rest you get when your "ego" or "thinker" stops and gives you a break for a change... all that compulsive thinking drives me nuts sometimes :P
anyways...
that peace of rap sounds cool :)
maybe i'll post some of my raps on here someday if you people would like that :P

[sindyloo]

Oh sorry missed that proffesor ego......I made need a spanking again for being bad!?;) :D

Oh and would love to see some samples of your guys Rap?? Will give you 50cent for them okay?? Even thru in M&M plus Akon to and keep them please!

Now as to Finite everything must be Finite as there is no energy anywhere that does not rundown!??

And that is universal in known reality as well as Myth IE God and his limtless power?? Why did he rest on the 7th day...tired?? And all suns burn out after time! even Red shift studys of our universe now show it to be limited!

So after one God ceases to be(die??) doesnt it make sense that another will take his place to prevent Chaos??:cool:

[ego]

Oh sorry missed that proffesor ego......I made need a spanking again for being bad!?;)
Hehehe! :D Naughty girl!

Oh and would love to see some samples of your guys Rap?? Will give you 50cent for them okay??
I guess i could find some youtube links, but rap should be listened in mother language dont you think? Keep your 50cents, i have MTV!! :D

Now as to Finite everything must be Finite as there is no energy anywhere that does not rundown!?? Actually its a matter of lack of matterial.

So after one God ceases to be(die??) doesnt it make sense that another will take his place to prevent Chaos??
Well, gods do not die! I think you need more than spanking! :D
Chaos? Although as a term is controversial, chaos is a condition of complete cosmos-order (sorry if makes no sense, thats the best word i can find). Matterials from themselves tend to remain in the position of the less energy. Thats why a rock rolls from a mountain, it has some energy because of its position and it "wants" to release it, to go in a position with no energy.
By god, we should mean a system that has very small entropy and thus, a very big abillity to produce work.
Work, is energy in the unit of time. The seven days represent the very short time in which creation took place (like in an explosion;) ), in other words, a huge release of energy in very small time. After that, entropy was in such a high level that the work the system could produce was very small. If god ever existed, He died 1*10-23(power) seconds after the big bang, when universe was slightly bigger than our galaxy.
When all the rocks will roll back in the zero energy position, the entropy will be small enough again to create another "god".

If god ever existed, He died
:o :o SINDY!??? :skull-eek Why you hold that paddle Sindy?? :eek:
:D

[sindyloo]

Cause you made my Head HURT...OUCH!! So now I am going to hurt something on you dear!!;) :skull-tea :skull-evi

[Ntense]

Now as to Finite everything must be Finite as there is no energy anywhere that does not rundown!??

Energy can be neither created nor destroyed (it's one of the fundamental laws of physics.) It can be changed, concentrated, dissipated, etc, but the energy remains...

Therefore, if the soul is at least partly energy, then it remains for eternity. That doesn't mean that it stays in the same form or cohesion, though. Entropy guarantees that "everything turns to shit". ;)

[Akirana]

Energy can be neither created nor destroyed (it's one of the fundamental laws of physics.) It can be changed, concentrated, dissipated, etc, but the energy remains...
i knew i heard it somewhere before!!
just couldn't think of it anymore >.<
thanks! :D

[Diva]

it's one of the fundamental laws of physics.

when you take them as true only without doubt.
physics is some thing to evolve always, always has a breakthrough, a new theory, a debate or some thing. how you know it is right?

[ego]

Because its proven.
Yes, new theories appear, things change, but not in that primal level.
And also, there is a matter of definitions. Would you ever doubt that 1+1=2?

[ego]

Cause you made my Head HURT...OUCH!!
Hey Sindy, you must be really short! Cos there is no other way my "ego" is THAT long to reach your head! :D

[Diva]

Because its proven.
Yes, new theories appear, things change, but not in that primal level.
And also, there is a matter of definitions. Would you ever doubt that 1+1=2?

somebody only prove it to where we know things. i can't believe humankind already know everything on how the whole of the universe works. i have read some thing of hawkins and himself disprove some of his own theorys. and until himself did others believed *its proven*. so when someone tells me only it is that i don't accept it for proven.
i study mathematics so i wouldn't say to doubt your equation. but that is mathematics, not physics (no, it is not each the same). here is your *matter of definitions*, too :)

[Akirana]

i knew i heard it somewhere before!!
just couldn't think of it anymore >.<
thanks! :D
lol weird to be quoting myself... but anyways...
i saw that once in a quantum physics movie too i remembered :D
what the bleep do we know it's called...
really cool movie :skull-coo

[sindyloo]

Wrong sorry energy is easily changed and discharged either by use or by friction acting on whatever is in motion!!

Look around do we have any perpetual motion machines in use right now?? NO we dont!:skull-thu

The sun is losing its energy and is slowly dying and has been proven by scientists!

Same as God could be Dying losing his energy due to old age?? Nothing in nature has been proven to be infinite and no one can prove that Yahweh himself is infinite!? If so why did he/they feel the need to create man?? Hum...:cool: :cool:

[Ntense]

Yes, but the energy still remains, it's merely dissipated over a wider area than when it was concentrated in the Sun. When you 'discharge' energy, you send it somewhere else, you cannot destroy it. If that law is false, then most of what we know to be true about the universe would not produce repeatable results. That's one of the reasons it's a law: without it, the whole framework falls apart, yet it's passed every test they could concoct thus far.

And there's an even chance we'll never understand the universe entirely. Steven Hawking and others have come a good way, but some of the essential 'truths' of physics aren't immediately obvious even to the geniuses.

... now for a short detour ... ;)

Here's a common point to every major religion except Islam: thou shalt not kill.

Nearly everyone can have violent and antisocial impulses, but fortunately the thin film of civilization keeps it in check most of the time. I try to lead a moral life, but I saw something on the news 20+ years ago that sticks with me today, and I still believe the guy did The Right Thing.

Scene opens: a long hallway, with a jubilant group approaching the camera. In the foreground a man in a long coat and a hat is talking on a payphone. As the group of revelers approaches, the camera zooms in to catch the enthusiasm.

Background to the scene: Over the last several weeks, a man had been on trial. It was proved conclusively that he had kidnapped, brutally raped and then murdered a 12 year old girl. Due to mishandling of some of the evidence, certain items key to the prosecution were ordered invalid by the judge. The remaining evidence (though damning) isn't enough to convict... and the scum of the Earth is released: 'Not Guilty'.

Scene ends: Just as the happy rapist/murder/pedophile comes up beside the man on the telephone, the man hangs up the phone, pulls a pistol from under his coat and puts it in the rapist's ear. He pulls the trigger, blowing brains across the hallway. Pandemonium erupts.

sotto voce: The man in the coat & hat is the little girl's father, a broken man that sat through endless hours of testimony in a California court and repeatedly saw pictures of his daughter defiled and choked to death, then watched in horror as the monster was set free to do it all over again. He left the courtroom several minutes before the defendant, and ran out to his car and back to prepare for Justice.

How many of us would do the same? How many at least approve of the father's actions?
Are we truly civilized or worthy of salvation when SO MANY of us wish the father had time to put more shots into that piece of human trash?

[Ntense]

Oh, and just to really amuse you: I believe firmly in both the validity of science and at least some of the claims of faith. Faith doesn't have to follow the laws of physics (and I don't have a problem with that), but trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and sparkplugs... you're doomed from the start. An apple is much tastier than a sparkplug, but it won't do shit to get your car running.

Science revolves around repeatable results, and to the best of my knowledge nobody has been able to produce miracles on demand, repeatably and provably. Science can't answer the deep questions that faith can, however, and it doesn't try. That's one crucial difference: they know when and where to draw the line between fantasy and fact, and when it's futile to argue about it. If you can't prove it, you take it on faith. If you CAN prove it, it's science. Let each do what they do best, and don't worry about the details. We have advanced beyond the herdsmen that thought the Earth rode on the back of a turtle... and there's always more to learn.

[Ntense]

I can't quote chapter and verse, but I'm pretty sure that 1 + 1 does not equal 2 on the other side of the event horizon of a black hole, presuming they exist in fact. I recall time and space get reversed (you can't control your position in space, but you can move through time) and other such imponderables. Euclidean geometry takes a hike when you pass the boundaries of the universe. Math like that *really* makes my brain hurt!

[ego]

somebody only prove it to where we know things. i can't believe humankind already know everything on how the whole of the universe works.
Yes, exactly, up to where we know. Of course we dont know everything.
But when thinking or making a conversation, you consider these things known and/or proved, cos else you have to start from the beggining. As Ntense said, these stuff is fundamental, all the sciense is based on that since Newton's age. To prove its wrong would mean we have to turn all our world up - side down!

i have read some thing of hawkins and himself disprove some of his own theorys. and until himself did others believed *its proven*. so when someone tells me only it is that i don't accept it for proven.
Theories, the magical word! :)
Theory, is something that someone assumes as right, but havent manage to prove yet. After proving a theory, it stops be a theory and is knowledge! Further, fundamental principles are axioms (tenets?) and that means they are not susceptible of proof, as a maths student you have to know that better than me. ;)

Hawkins changed his mind about a matter dealing with the loss of informations while light is sucked from a black hole, and if that informations can be recovered from the hole's radiation. I think this is much more advanced than the "sustention of energy principle". Its like you compare summation with integral calculus or with differential equations.

You are right to doubt, world advances thanks to people who doubt, but i am afraid that on the specific point you are about 350 years late! :)


i study mathematics so i wouldn't say to doubt your equation. but that is mathematics, not physics (no, it is not each the same). here is your *matter of definitions*, too :)
I know its not the same. Physics is the eyes you use to observe; maths are the mouth you use to say what you observed! But they both use assumations, principles and definitions.
If you ask me, i would say that we KNOW nothing about the world. We DEFINE it though.


i saw that once in a quantum physics movie too i remembered
I believe you have seen it on your school books.When you was about 14.


Here's a common point to every major religion except Islam: thou shalt not kill.
Good point Ntense! :skull-thu
Isnt it controversial with the idea of life after death? ;) I mean if everyone after death receives what he worths, why its bad to be dead? If i kill a guy i send him to where he belons asap, why is that bad? Why everybody wants go to heaven but noone wants die?


How many of us would do the same? How many at least approve of the father's actions?
Not me for both the questions. Kill someone is not a punishment. Shooting him on the knees, or in the backbone would be much better, that guy has to suffer! :mad:


Science can't answer the deep questions that faith can,
Excuse me, but what are the deep questions that faith has answered? I am searching for years but found no answer! Unless of course you accept the "for He said so" as an answer!
Faith (in religion) means to accept something without further investigation, just because you are told so. Thanks, but i'll pass.


I recall time and space get reversed (you can't control your position in space, but you can move through time) and other such imponderables. Euclidean geometry takes a hike when you pass the boundaries of the universe. Math like that *really* makes my brain hurt!
Time and space are different dimensions of the SAME thing! We just lack the vechile to move to the desireable way!

Geometry, is a compound, from gaia and measurement. It means "i measure the land". Of course its not really usefull for measuring the space!
Actually, its proven wrong even on navigation, as Euclides' world was flat*, while our world is round...


*= actually they knew that world is not flat, they knew everything is curved. Thats why their buildings are not made from straight lines but curvy ones, they wanted the buildings be a part of the nature.

[Akirana]

I believe you have seen it on your school books.When you was about 14.

lol... i don't think so :P
i never was really good with the going to school part... skipped alot of school when i started to smoke herb lol >.>
and then again... physics never really was my best course in school lol
+ i don't think we went down into those kinda physics too deeply when i was at school lol
so yeh... i heard that when i was 19 or so in a movie... :P

[ego]

:)
I used to hate physics up to my 20 years. Then i was given a very good book which was really explanatory although it was advanced.
And i made the mistake: read it after i had smoke herb.....WOW! a brand new world was in front of me! I dont know if it was the book or the herb, but i could clearly see everything! :D

[Diva]

Isnt it controversial with the idea of life after death? I mean if everyone after death receives what he worths, why its bad to be dead? If i kill a guy i send him to where he belons asap, why is that bad? Why everybody wants go to heaven but noone wants die?

jahwe creates every humankind to live their life. if you kill other people you take their life from them and you mustn't do this.

Hawkins changed his mind about a matter dealing with the loss of informations while light is sucked from a black hole, and if that informations can be recovered from the hole's radiation. I think this is much more advanced than the "sustention of energy principle". Its like you compare summation with integral calculus or with differential equations.

yes it is but i very much like it still! :)

How many of us would do the same? How many at least approve of the father's actions?

Not me for both the questions. Kill someone is not a punishment. Shooting him on the knees, or in the backbone would be much better, that guy has to suffer!

i understand this for the father. but i can't do this also.
but this is different for the father. i was raped and i never want to kill. but my father wanted.

Excuse me, but what are the deep questions that faith has answered? I am searching for years but found no answer! Unless of course you accept the "for He said so" as an answer!
Faith (in religion) means to accept something without further investigation, just because you are told so. Thanks, but i'll pass.

you have right for this! but humans believe this and this is answer enough for them. when you don't believe you have no answers from faith of course.

[Akirana]

:)
I used to hate physics up to my 20 years. Then i was given a very good book which was really explanatory although it was advanced.
And i made the mistake: read it after i had smoke herb.....WOW! a brand new world was in front of me! I dont know if it was the book or the herb, but i could clearly see everything! :D
i had that when my friend asked me to be fully in the now and see what my problem was... then i concluded and could clearly see for myself... that if you are in the present moment... there usually are no problems...
something else
i heard this in an audiobook... a woman was in a lift injury... and was in great pain and such... but still... in that very moment... she could see that not one thing was out of place... she could truely see the harmony of the moment she was in...
i think that's amazing!!

[Akirana]

and wow diva... do you type your english just as you say it?

[Diva]

my english is not so good.
i'm sorry for i'm not so good in writing, superman!
but when you want make fun with it you can. i don't care much!

[Akirana]

sjeez... don't have to be offended by it >.<
i was just asking a question >.>
like my english is so good rofl :P

[cameltoefan88]

lolz Fuck organized religion. We know the majority of religion is based upon history. And history is never for certain because those who recorded it could have seen it/interpreted it differently from the others that were involved. The only organized religions I'm cool with are budism and maybe taoism. They don't force their ideals and opinions on others. And if something historical comes into question they can easily negate it and focus on spirituality. That is how religion should be.

So in closing fuck close minded fools who force ideals and history that they do not fully comprehend. Be free. If they try to force their ideals they should die. I'm peaceful, but will be violent to maintain that peace!

[touriquet2000]

uh , so you're violently peaceful ? and you're ok with us as long as we believe like you ? other wise we're close minded fools ? is that what you just said ?

[cameltoefan88]

Yes I am a hypocrite, I never claimed I wasn't. It is human nature to be hypocritical. I'm ok with you as long as you don't tell me to believe what you believe. Life is my own journey and I don't need a realign or others to tell me how I should live my life (spiritually). The point I was trying to put across is if you don't ask what religion I am, I won't tell you and won't be compelled to tell you. I'd expect the same from any other person. If we agree to a religious discussion than so be it, but I will not tolerate religious solicitors. Especially those whom tell others what they believe is right, and to discard their already held beliefs.

[ego]

jahwe creates every humankind to live their life. if you kill other people you take their life from them and you mustn't do this.
And who says that? God? I have been hearing that by human mouths only.
And by a inner voice that says a lot of things. But this voice is MINE.

And i am sure an Aztec's voice would say different things, perhaps wanted he sacrificies 50 warriors -honor to the god of course...

Who should i believe if nothing divine was ever revealed to me?



you have right for this! but humans believe this and this is answer enough for them. when you don't believe you have no answers from faith of course.
This works both ways: As long as i get no answer, i see nothing to believe in!
On the other hand, i see faith (or better them who represent it) coming on me, they hold books, they say words, they push me; to the school, the family, the road and all of them want the same, to possess me -with a promise of salvation in return.
And none of them ever asked me, if i want to be saved ! Neither i was told of what i am in danger !

And if i have never been a sinner, what i need His favor for?





Ok, sorry for the rant, its not your fault people, i have runned out of cigarettes....:o



Anyway, i believe to the god, to ΩΝ, to "the great entity", but sorry, i cant believe it acts on a predefined plan. And science agrees with me! ;) :D :D

[ego]

Btw, once again the matters of religion and science got mixed.

I suggest we let the scientific part of the universe on physics and the spiritual part on his mind each one.

[Akirana]

This works both ways: As long as i get no answer, i see nothing to believe in!
On the other hand, i see faith (or better them who represent it) coming on me, they hold books, they say words, they push me; to the school, the family, the road and all of them want the same, to possess me -with a promise of salvation in return.
And none of them ever asked me, if i want to be saved ! Neither i was told of what i am in danger !

And if i have never been a sinner, what i need His favor for? :D
lol... good one bro :D
this is why i think your a good person to discuss stuff with... even if you don't agree with me lol!
but you seem wise and very openminded and stuff :D so yeh...
just wanted to let you know :skull-coo

[sindyloo]

ctomie!!! Great Thread it is such fun thanks for getting it going!

This will be one of the contenders for Thread of the Year coming up next year!

THANK YOU!!:D :D :skull-bee :skull-bee

[Diva]

just wanted to let you know

and kiss him in the ass-cheeks now! :D

[touriquet2000]

and kiss him in the ass-cheeks now! :D



omg !!!! (roflmfao) as they say on 'that 70' show'

BURN !!!!

[ego]

and kiss him in the ass-cheeks now! :D
I have to warn you Aki, if you do this, it will trigger a big stinky fart! :D

[Akirana]

lol... i didn't think i was kissing ass :P
i was merely giving a compliment to you :)

[Diva]

lol... i didn't think i was kissing ass :P
i was merely giving a compliment to you

ok. i am more peaceful this day! :)
and this compliment is deserved for ego!

[Ntense]

http://i23.tinypic.com/28a55s1.gif http://i24.tinypic.com/291njmo.gif http://i20.tinypic.com/2moqccz.gif http://i20.tinypic.com/30sja6g.gif

... :D

[ego]

lol... i didn't think i was kissing ass :P

Dont worry, i didnt understood you was!
I just wanted to express my dislike of ass-kissers...

[Akirana]

lol ok :)

[sindyloo]

Diva and Cameltoe...welcome to the thread and thanks for you opinions on this!

You should be free to believe what you want too! And the most impotrant thing is your faith! Use your free will for your good as well as others okay??

treat each other as you would like to be treated...with kindness and understanding for the betterment of All of US!!:skull-thu :D :skull-lov


PEACE OUT!!:skull-lov

[Diva]

for the betterment of All of US

*All of US* or *All of U.S.*? ;)

yes you have right of course! i don't care when some one make fun with my faith. but i think it's something not necessary.
they must have respect and many people don't be like this!
i like to fight often but some things i don't feel it's right to fight with others.

[sindyloo]

Sorry Diva I meant US as in all human beings that where created by a supposed divine being of some kind. Thru sex and birth of course...dont re-call anyone being made from dirt lately!;)

[touriquet2000]

Diva and Cameltoe...welcome to the thread and thanks for you opinions on this!

You should be free to believe what you want too! And the most impotrant thing is your faith! Use your free will for your good as well as others okay??

treat each other as you would like to be treated...with kindness and understanding for the betterment of All of US!!:skull-thu :D :skull-lov


PEACE OUT!!:skull-lov

WTF: what's next sindy ? you'll want us all in a damn group hug !!!!! hey i could grope the ladies then !!!! nevermind carry on doin your good deeds sindy . JUST BE SURE AN INVITE ME !!!!! :skull-lov

[touriquet2000]

*All of US* or *All of U.S.*? ;)

yes you have right of course! i don't care when some one make fun with my faith. but i think it's something not necessary.
they must have respect and many people don't be like this!
i like to fight often but some things i don't feel it's right to fight with others.

of course she meant *all of u. fucking s.* if not we'll be in your country too . it's not like we haven't fucked up enough yet . another ones around the damn corner all cause god is telling him what to do . let's all get down on are knees and pray !!!! Halle-Fucking-luiah !!!!!


(sorry sindy needed to rant , i know you didn't mean it that way)

[sindyloo]

Thats okay Tour hell thats why the Rowdy room is here get it ALL off of your chest you might feel better??:skull-thu :D


And another thing....HEY??? Who the hells Hand is that Huh??:eek: :eek:

[ctomie]

ctomie!!! Great Thread it is such fun thanks for getting it going!

This will be one of the contenders for Thread of the Year coming up next year!

THANK YOU!!:D :D :skull-bee :skull-bee

Thanks. I started this thread just to rant about christianity, but did not realize that this topic will go crazy afterwards.

What I have in the first post is copied and pasted from one of the essays from my anti-christianity website. I'm planning to write more.

Bottom line: Fuck christianity!!

[Ntense]

Oh, my goodness... I don't need to add anything to this fucking Nazi Christian's editorial to push it over the top into 'absurd'! Ctomie, here's another you'll want to bookmark for later amusement. :skull-big

Seig Heil, Alice! :skull-ton Might I suggest 'vnnforum.com' for you and your friends? Zyklon B for racial and religious purity! Woo hoo! Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!

click to see the full post at LOLjesus
http://loljesus.com/wp-content/uploads/_takethatbj2.jpg (http://anonym.to/?http://loljesus.com/2007/05/14/replace-the-word-athiests-with-christians-in-this-article/)


note: Some of you thick-headed twats probably thought I was kidding about the abuse and repeated harassment we've taken from your idiot brethren. This sick bitch proves that inside every Christian is a dangerous seed of intolerance. I'll keep the .45 handy for the true believers, thanks for your concern...

[ctomie]

Christians are:

1). Intolerant - can't handle anyone holding beliefs that differ from their own.
2). argumentative - won't hesitate to pick fights with non-christians whenever they say something that is not compatible with christianity.
3). judgemental - constantly judges non-christians, especially about their beliefs.
4). overly defensive / intellectually dishonest - will do ANYTHING to defend themselves, even if what non-christians say about them is right. They might even resort to lying when defending themselves.
5). sanctimonious - acting like they're so devout and holy, usually by praying in public or using expressions like "Amen / Amen to that", "Praise God", "God is amazing" in their daily conversations.
6). arrogant - thinking they're the most "righteous" people in the world. Enjoy telling people what to do and won't hesitate to tell them that they're wrong.
7). unoriginal and predictable - (google for some christian cliches and you'll see).
8). hypocritical - because they preach about "love" but yet they can't show it, and also because of all the above.

[Joanna]

Christians are hypocrites

I believe that the title almost says it all. Christians, throughout centuries, have been preaching about love, such as compassion, caring, tolerance, understanding, respect, etc. but yet they failed to demonstrate it through their actions, emphatically. In more serious (and most) cases, they act in such a way that is opposite to what they preach. It is clear that anyone who says one thing and does another meets the definition of a hypocrite. Let's look at a clearer definition of the word:

"Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings" - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Christians, especially those who are particularly enthusiastic and supportive of their beliefs, tend to expect non-christians to hold their beliefs or at least read about them. They argued that their religion contains "the truth" or "the way to life" and so we ought to consider them with an "open heart". However, when we, non-christians (such as atheists, anti-christians, etc) ask them to consider our beliefs, which are opposite to theirs, they immediately and obstinately refused. Their reason for refusing is nothing more than the claim that we are wrong and they are right, without the need to think any further. However, if we were to make the same claim about them, they get offended.

Even if christians were to make any attempts to consider the views of non-christians, they will still do so without putting their own beliefs aside. The reason is that they have difficulty remaining neutral, and that they are close-minded individuals (who expect others to be open-minded).
so glad to see your so open minded. lol

[spazmo]

religions were simply seeking for morals at there times ,they tried the best the can & therefore i cant blame them !
the reason of all problems & clashs between us is defining the word of "morals" starting from workers religion like Judaism , farmers religion like Christianity , ending to bedwian religion like Islam !

btw , i am a muslim , & i can till for sure that mohammed the prophet was an angel compared to past other warlords who ruled arabia , a simple look at arabian history 'll serve enough .. & sure arabs without this guy would be just a savages animals attacking every creature on planet to steal his daughters & gold .
i guess the same story 'll be found with the other two religions , i just mentioned islam as the nearest living example for me :)

at the end , we cant judge the religions out of its frame without judging the whole era , & judging the whole era needs a rowdy palace not just a rowdy room !!

[sindyloo]

Really good point of view thank you Spazmo and welcome to the board!

We need to remind ourselves most of all to keep a open mind when we try to judge others!:skull-thu

And by the way are we not ALL descendants of Arbraham???:D

[Akirana]

i think it's better to keep an open mind and NOT judge others...
people have a nasty tendancy of hating other people yes yes i'm guilty of this little fact too... wish i wasn't tho >.<
but the fact is... that if we were to accept our fellow man... i don't know...
maybe... just maybe... we could make this world a beautifull place in stead of destroying it with everything we have

[Ntense]

Well, I *try* to do that everywhere but THIS thread, but it's rarely successful. :rolleyes:

Once someone finds out I'm 'different' they just HAVE to try to save me. Gee, I didn't know I needed saving, but keep up the kind thoughts. I'll muddle through much like we all do.

For a while I tried being an athiest, but I took almost constant grief for it. A lot of Christians automatically equate that with demon worshipper or something, and they get really pissy when I tell 'em I couldn't care less for their religion. I'm quite happy to take the few (very few) good moral and philosophical ideas from it and trash the rest.

They also get really uptight (see the editorial above) when I tell 'em to keep their religious fairy tales OUT of my federally funded classrooms. I don't care if they want to bring their 'creation myths' into a course on comparative religions, but if they say it's TRUTH then they have to prove it and give examples. Without proof, the ancient Tibetan view on creation is just as valid as Christianity's version, and neither should be handed to impressionable children in science textbooks as *fact*. I live next to Hindus, Catholics, Southern Baptists, Jews and a handful of Mormons. Which one(s) get the shaft if one group decides that THEIR version will be in the textbooks? That's the biggest failure of 'majority rule', if the majority is intolerant of differences.

Ask the English and the Irish how well a 'state religion' worked out for them... and that whole cock-up was over two flavors of Christianity!

[Demon King]

I have to agree with you on that one completley. Christianity is nothing but a waste of time and space. Honestly how can people believe a book that was written supposedly millions of years ago. How many time has i tbeen translated and rewritten. seriously look at all the different religions and tell me you cant tell that something funny is goin on. Personally i say do away wiht it, bu that is me. To top it all off, "Christians" are the first one crying for blood in any situation no matter how much they claim to be "peaceful People". Yes it does sum up every form of Christian Religion, from muslim to jew they are all the same.....HYPOCRITICAL!!!!!!!!!!1

[Akirana]

so glad to see your so open minded. lol
i second that! lol

[sindyloo]

Demon King...nice point you have there!!:skull-thu

Yes there have been thousands of people killed in the name of GOD by Christians from way back...Like the first Crusades and even up to early modern warfare!

It is okay to kill the "heathens" as long as you pray to GOD first so you feel better about yourself!! My Ass...it is!?:o

[spazmo]

by the way are we not ALL descendants of Arbraham??
thx sindyloo
but i guess Arbraham sons successfully turned them selfs to a community stars , & they just paying the price of that :)
well , some ppl like Ntense might look more than upset of religions , but i guess there problem with the fanatics & the religion states is on his first place !
i can understand how he feels coz my own country is being teared apart from every fantic on earth , i am now emigrant thx to them & i just hope to come back home one day to see that its all gone with anyhow !

state of religion might be working in its own time (& not even 100% perfectly) but not now , never ever !
alot of ppl in (Iran) & (Saudia Arabia) are craying everyday for freedom , & not even the freedom in reality but the freedom over the internet !
imagine youth who cant visit Wikibedia, youtube or google for (harmful contents against islamic community) & thats what iranian government sees ?!
imagine youth of sudia arabia who cant use Archive.org , rapidshare , megaupload, etec for the same cause ?

no one can do anything against the fanatic regime except a more extremest fanatics (like al quida for example) !!
therefor choices in middle east is simply between a light (state of religion) or a heavy (state of religion) , yea ... its a misfortune indeed , but we cant brainwash everyone's mind , right ?

[ego]

Nice post spazmo.

[Number7]

As a Christian myself, here is what I have to say.

I don't push my religion on others, I keep it to myself.

I respect you have your own views.

Now all I ask is you show a bit of respect towards myself.

[Akirana]

Now all I ask is you show a bit of respect towards myself.
dude... where not bashing on you personally... we are bashing on general religeon and it's just a nice thing to be bitching about sometimes :p

i have great respect for you and your believes...
but a discussion about religion should be allowed shouldn't it?

[Number7]

dude... where not bashing on you personally... we are bashing on general religeon and it's just a nice thing to be bitching about sometimes :p

i have great respect for you and your believes...
but a discussion about religion should be allowed shouldn't it?
Oh yeah, of course, I don't have a problem with people debating religion, and believe me, I'm no perfect Christian (I'm on a rape board ffs.)

I just think the thread creator is just as bad as the religious people who condemn non believers.

You need a balanced view on things or else you end up with crusades and other problems.

[Akirana]

true that :)

[Demon King]

Number7 here is a prime example of what i think most of us are talking about, i am a salesmen and when i went to this one house the guy was a real jerk in turning me away and then as i was leaving he tried to hand my one of those little booklets of what you need to know anout heaven or some shit, all i could do was laugh and tell him i had a difference in opinion and show him my Demon King tat. man did he get pissed but the point is those are the type of people that make christianity a prime target for "bashing" ( cant think of a better word).

[sindyloo]

Yes great point Demon king....lot of them talk the talk but dont do the fucking walk! Idiots...dont tell me I am going to burn in hell unless you take that fucking log out of your own eye first!:skull-thu :skull-tic


Funnest Time I had was when the Watchtower people would show up or the LDS guys...."Hey You guys are right in time to join us In our Satan Worship?? Come on In!!" Wow did they ever leave fast!!:skull-big :skull-big

[tnc4fun]

A human institution that's full of hypocrites ?!?!?!? Tell me it isn't so !!!!

Better yet, name one that ain't....

[Ntense]

Funnest Time I had was when the Watchtower people would show up or the LDS guys...."Hey You guys are right in time to join us In our Satan Worship?? Come on In!!" Wow did they ever leave fast!!:skull-big :skull-big

I pulled the same thing one Saturday? morning. 7am comes a knock at the door: it's a guy in black flanked by two women in black. He said "Is this a house of SIN?!?" and I replied "It sure as hell is! Wanna come in for a few beers and an orgy?"

Don't *ever* wake me early in the day with a leading line like that... :skull-win

[LeParas]

I pulled the same thing one Saturday? morning. 7am comes a knock at the door: it's a guy in black flanked by two women in black. He said "Is this a house of SIN?!?" and I replied "It sure as hell is! Wanna come in for a few beers and an orgy?"

Don't *ever* wake me early in the day with a leading line like that... :skull-win

*roflmao* :skull-bee
Maybe he lost the adress for the local henhouse,and ha to ask in the neiborhood.:D

[sindyloo]

Hey Leparas welcome back...I missed you here and your short but fun comments!!:skull-thu :D :D

[LeParas]

Hey Leparas welcome back...I missed you here and your short but fun comments!!:skull-thu :D :D

Thank you sindyloo,and btw is that you on your avatar? :p ;) :p

[Ntense]

Well, I have a new sub-human class of 'Christians' to rant about today! :D

A friend was describing the drama and trauma between another friend and his family. At around 12 years old, the family converted to Jehova's Witnesses, a particularly foul and evil sect of intolerant devil worshipers (apparently they formally reject or disavow the gay lifestyle.) At some point in his young adulthood, he came to the realization that he wasn't quite like the other boys, and the shit hit the fan.

The family has since shunned him, not even recognizing him for the most part as a person: they are not allowed to break bread with him, have him at family functions, etc. He's survived decades of this sort of mental abuse since then.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!?!? How the hell can you just 'write off' a child?

Personally, I'd dearly love to tie them to a fence and horsewhip them repeatedly. It's not quite as bad as what they've done to their own flesh and blood, but it'd get some of the anger and aggression out in the open.

At it's core, our society embraces protecting our children. That's the most basic element of civilization, and continues on down through nearly the entire animal kingdom. How could some self-righteous group of shitholes decide that a warped vision of God is more important than family?? Does a 'just and loving' God decree that you abandon your children to the cold merely because they grew up a little different from your other kids?? Sure, toss 'em to the wolves, God won't mind!

This whole attitude has me so pissed off that I could spit nails..... and they're damned lucky that he's a much more calm person at heart than I am. Think "Lizzy Borden..."

<grabs an AK-47 and goes on the warpath against this crew of pricks!>

[Ntense]

http://i9.tinypic.com/8a54ygx.gif

That's for any 'Christian apologists' that would like to downplay the brutal and fucking insane Jehova's Witnesses. It's a funny image, but I'm not laughing.

How in hell could you call yourself a 'Supreme Being' and order your followers to abjure their children merely because they're *special*?

At a minimum, these fucking twats have either read their Good Book entirely wrong, or they're wholly deranged. I have absolute and rock-solid faith that THEY got the wrong damn message. If they're the Blessed Children of God, then I'm gonna slit my throat, 'cos I sure as hell don't want to exist in a universe that was invented by a child hater. I can't even BEGIN to imagine a 'heaven' populated by this sort of arrogant assholes. The mind boggles...

I've been poking fun and having you on earlier in the thread, but I'm damned well not amused at the situation above. It makes me want to go all medieval: visions of bloody battle-axes and limbs flying are my 'happy place' concerning the offal calling themselves Witnesses. Thank God there's only 16 million of 'em world-wide. The rest of us can scrape 'em off of our boots and go on with life.

[shysnale]

Christians are hypocrites

I believe that the title almost says it all. Christians, throughout centuries, have been preaching about love, such as compassion, caring, tolerance, understanding, respect, etc. but yet they failed to demonstrate it through their actions, emphatically. In more serious (and most) cases, they act in such a way that is opposite to what they preach. It is clear that anyone who says one thing and does another meets the definition of a hypocrite. Let's look at a clearer definition of the word:

"Hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings" - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Christians, especially those who are particularly enthusiastic and supportive of their beliefs, tend to expect non-christians to hold their beliefs or at least read about them. They argued that their religion contains "the truth" or "the way to life" and so we ought to consider them with an "open heart". However, when we, non-christians (such as atheists, anti-christians, etc) ask them to consider our beliefs, which are opposite to theirs, they immediately and obstinately refused. Their reason for refusing is nothing more than the claim that we are wrong and they are right, without the need to think any further. However, if we were to make the same claim about them, they get offended.

Even if christians were to make any attempts to consider the views of non-christians, they will still do so without putting their own beliefs aside. The reason is that they have difficulty remaining neutral, and that they are close-minded individuals (who expect others to be open-minded).

Ho fuck I will talk about religion again, and ask for a truce in 2 posts, how pathetic will that be...let's see..

None of the Christians you are accusing is pretending to apply perfectly his religion. But some faith is better than no faith at all. It's like a dad teaching his kid. Don't get drunk kid, it's no good for you. But you know, I sometimes got drunk when I had too many worries at work. So my dear little kid, you have to find out the subtle balance between healthy drinking & fancy drinking. No. It doesn't work like that. Every rule has to be written in a straight and clear way otherwise it won't make it through the test of time. You have to understand man always got shit scared of the great unknowed. Whenever you call it apocalypse or flooding or the lightning strikes of divine justice.....man needs images and historical heritage to give the mind something to rely on. Don't take things at the first degree. You think god is too straight ? You got tired of the great beardy rule maker living in the clouds ? Ok. Give up on the ancient testament and just read or reread the new testament. There you will find the one considered as god's son : Jesus. Look at the way he dealt with all the dilemns and conflictuals situations he found in Israel back then, and you will notice someone who goes far behind the ten commandments. Every rule has an exception and finds a situation were compromises can be found in everybody's interest. The 'You should not kill' commandment is just a basis that can be adapt to critical situations. Look at the templar, they were armed monks. You think they would let someone step on them when some troublemaker started to sneak around ? When order comes in the play, when people lives can be endangered, then violence can be the last ressort. The 'You should not kill' commandment can be linked with the 'Care and love your brothers' Jesus advice. What I'm trying to tell you is that no rule and no teachings will ever be perfect enough to fit will all situations that can come up from that twisted planet we're living on. But this is not a good reason for us to become weak. As long as some leaders will come up with some good advice to take, we should keep on writing them down and try to mix them with our lifes. Sometimes some frustrated Christians people will get way too straight, sometimes some of them will be too passive, but if you give a good look around, you will always find countries were a good balance is made with religion. Here in France we had this Priest called Father Gaillot. He had some trouble with the Vatican because he was taking religion to the tv sets and kind making a fool of himself. It took 6 years of him fooling around before the pope Jean Paul 2 decided to fire him. That's a bit better than the St Inquisition work back then, right ? I don't know how seriously someone like me posting pics of murders in the rowdy room can be taken, but if you could allow me the benefice of the doubt, I can tell you about dozens christians associations here that work their ass off to get medication out there to Africa or any other countries in distress. We're just humans, we can't a all act perfectly, but it never hurts to try to answer questions of morality than letting ourselves drown in chaos.

[LeParas]

Salu shysnale,ca va bien?
I think he means the guys like at those religious TV shows over there in the USA.
I think he didnt means the christian people at all.
BTW. I was in Africa as a soldier for over three years,and i know the christians
and other NGO´s did/do a great job over there,they have earned my deepest
respect.:skull-thu

[sindyloo]

Great pont LE....Paras!! umm you are french are you not Mon ami???


But yes the morons like Falwell.....Robertson and the other Fucking fakes do give the true Christians a bad image as they are only in it for the Money!??

Oh and my love Shysnale........look what you guys did to that poor innocent Virgin Girl Joan De Arc??? Come on burning a virgin before using her??? Dumb asses!!!:skull-big :skull-big :D

[Ntense]

Shy: http://i3.tinypic.com/80mhzyc.png ( just a suggestion... :D )

It's damned hard to read "stream of consciousness" writing styles.

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

lol nice one nntense

[Ntense]

A little humor at the expense of the Catholics. Fuck 'em, let 'em turn the other cheek! :skull-ny:

http://rapidshare.com/files/73475688/Jim_Gaffigan_-_Catholic.mp3


Damn, had to look all over before I found this one again! It's one of my favorites, particularly the first bit.
I have the voice down pat, ready for the next time some asshole insists I go to their church. :skull-evi This is Mike Armstrong in the piece 'More Fun Things To Do (to Catholics)', and it's a hoot!

http://rapidshare.com/files/73478390/Mike_Armstrong_-_More_Fun_Things_to_Do.mp3

[tnc4fun]

Funny thing, though, never heard Fallwell, Robertson, etc call for beheading a teacher because she let her class name a teddy bear Jesus....

Just talkin degree her folks...

[Emily Johnson]

Three-quarters of the American population literally believes in religious miracles. The numbers who believe in the devil, in resurrection, God does this and that — astonishing. These are numbers that you have nowhere in the industrial world.

—Noam Chomsky


I've actually read since that 90% of Americans believe in god compared to some 40% of Europeans. This means Americans actually have more in common with El Quada than the civilized world ....



Another quote I like:



In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

[shysnale]

Three-quarters of the American population literally believes in religious miracles. The numbers who believe in the devil, in resurrection, God does this and that — astonishing. These are numbers that you have nowhere in the industrial world.

—Noam Chomsky


I've actually read since that 90% of Americans believe in god compared to some 40% of Europeans. This means Americans actually have more in common with El Quada than the civilized world ....



Another quote I like:



In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

My dear Emily, you have a serious need to read some history of religious events outside the Us, and most importantly, read the new testament. When I'm saying read, it doesn't mean jump from one line to another, really make a stop on Jesus parables and try to understand how they match in a life of a practical christian. Words like obedience or salvation are not needed. There's a lot of parts where Jesus leaves choices to people about what they want to do and wishes then the best for their future. Fear of god is not necessary. The only thing people should be affraid of is ignorance.

[shysnale]

Matthew 13:24-29

The Parable of the Weeds

24 - Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 - But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 - When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 - The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28 - 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29 - 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

Through this parable Jesus tends to explain pure goodness and pure evil doesn't exist. It all goes together. If you take all bad away, good doesn't mean anything anymore & vice and versa. People have to deal with imperfections of life, and no one needs to fall in extreme behaviors to 'purge' himself ot others. What this parable is trying to say is be surrounded by evil is necessary to learn self control and to improve your behavior. This is why Emily Johnson's stuff like : "Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation", is sterile. This is typically a thoughtless copy & paste act of someone who likes to bash around without thinking. I do not mean any offence to you Emily or to any of you guys who dislikes Catholicism. I was grown in a very straigh 'Old France' Catholic familly. I knew this anger you talk about, and it remainded in my mind for years before I was lucky enough to find someone to encourage me reread the bible.

Please, if you pursue on bashing on Catholism, do come up with serious thought instead of acting like Ntense, I mean a little 15 years old brainless kid who try to jump on every historical event that can serve his interest instead of coming up with some spiritual thinking that could help this debate go farther.

No offence.

[ego]

Excellent posts Snale!
Emily is somehow right also. As long as i understand, you speak about the theoritical Christianism, while she speaks about the applicated one.

What i am not (yet) sure about, is this:
Jesus tends to explain pure goodness and pure evil doesn't exist.
I think evil is made, its an artifact and thus it can be destroyed.

[shysnale]

Excellent posts Snale!
Emily is somehow right also. As long as i understand, you speak about the theoritical Christianism, while she speaks about the applicated one.

Of course, read me back : (just the bold sentences)

None of the Christians you are accusing is pretending to apply perfectly his religion. But some faith is better than no faith at all. It's like a dad teaching his kid. Don't get drunk kid, it's no good for you. But you know, I sometimes got drunk when I had too many worries at work. So my dear little kid, you have to find out the subtle balance between healthy drinking & fancy drinking. No. It doesn't work like that. Every rule has to be written in a straight and clear way otherwise it won't make it through the test of time. You have to understand man always got shit scared of the great unknowed. Whenever you call it apocalypse or flooding or the lightning strikes of divine justice.....man needs images and historical heritage to give the mind something to rely on. Don't take things at the first degree. You think god is too straight ? You got tired of the great beardy rule maker living in the clouds ? Ok. Give up on the ancient testament and just read or reread the new testament. There you will find the one considered as god's son : Jesus. Look at the way he dealt with all the dilemns and conflictuals situations he found in Israel back then, and you will notice someone who goes far behind the ten commandments. Every rule has an exception and finds a situation were compromises can be found in everybody's interest. The 'You should not kill' commandment is just a basis that can be adapt to critical situations. Look at the templar, they were armed monks. You think they would let someone step on them when some troublemaker started to sneak around ? When order comes in the play, when people lives can be endangered, then violence can be the last ressort. The 'You should not kill' commandment can be linked with the 'Care and love your brothers' Jesus advice. What I'm trying to tell you is that no rule and no teachings will ever be perfect enough to fit will all situations that can come up from that twisted planet we're living on. But this is not a good reason for us to become weak. As long as some leaders will come up with some good advice to take, we should keep on writing them down and try to mix them with our lifes. Sometimes some frustrated Christians people will get way too straight, sometimes some of them will be too passive, but if you give a good look around, you will always find countries were a good balance is made with religion. Here in France we had this Priest called Father Gaillot. He had some trouble with the Vatican because he was taking religion to the tv sets and kind making a fool of himself. It took 6 years of him fooling around before the pope Jean Paul 2 decided to fire him. That's a bit better than the St Inquisition work back then, right ? I don't know how seriously someone like me posting pics of murders in the rowdy room can be taken, but if you could allow me the benefice of the doubt, I can tell you about dozens christians associations here that work their ass off to get medication out there to Africa or any other countries in distress. We're just humans, we can't a all act perfectly, but it never hurts to try to answer questions of morality instead of letting ourselves drown in chaos.



What i am not (yet) sure about, is this:
I think evil is made, its an artifact and thus it can be destroyed.

Evil is not an artifact, it just derives from different points of view about how things can be handled. You can never separate them completely. How are you going to teach your kids to be good to their schoolmates if you can't use the image of evil as what shouldn't be done ? This image will remain in kids heads, and one day the image can become an act. But this choice is what makes a kid think and grow mature.

Have you ever heard about the Yin/Yang symbol ?

[sindyloo]

Of course we have heard of it....My Dear Shyone!!:D :skull-lov


Two symbols representing life itself. One black= bad/evil the other white=good/pure. Both coming together trying to destroy or replace the other!


Until finally realising the Futility of their Battle.........One can not exist with out the other!;) :cool:

We are each some of both...Good and Bad dwelling in us together how much of each??? WELL that depends on us and the life we lead!?:cool: ;)

[ego]

Evil is not an artifact, it just derives from different points of view about how things can be handled. You can never separate them completely.
I guess "artifact" is not the right word, i am sorry i cant find a better one.
What i know is that it didnt exist since creation, it was "invented" afterwards. I used to believe that you cant seperate them, that one cant exist without the other. But if you read carefully, its clear: there has been time that evil didnt exist.


How are you going to teach your kids to be good to their schoolmates if you can't use the image of evil as what shouldn't be done ?
Good needs not to be teached. Everybody already has it in him.


This image will remain in kids heads, and one day the image can become an act. But this choice is what makes a kid think and grow mature.

That happens only because of the original sin, without it we wouldnt have knowledge of the evil.


Have you ever heard about the Yin/Yang symbol ?
Yes, off course.
I have heard about the EL symbol also, about the Delphic one, about the rael and many more.

http://img46.imagevenue.com/loc1069/th_84598_CASFAD29_123_1069lo.jpg (http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=th_84598_CASFAD29_123_1069lo.jpg) http://img21.imagevenue.com/loc679/th_84598_lamda_123_679lo.jpg (http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=th_84598_lamda_123_679lo.jpg) http://img128.imagevenue.com/loc629/th_84601_rael_symbol_123_629lo.jpg (http://img128.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=th_84601_rael_symbol_123_629lo.jpg)



They are made of humans, they express humans' thought and desires. Actually, they are nothing more than symbols, they dont have any power by themselves, neither they prove something.

Do not look at the flag, look whose hands are holding it.




P.S I liked that last one. I just found my new sig. :)

[Ntense]

I guess the Jews must have taken exception to the Star of David being adorned with a right-hand Swastika... I see they've since changed the Raelian symbol.

(before and after 1991)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f8/Raelian_symbols.svg/180px-Raelian_symbols.svg.png

The newer version is more like a lotus.

[Ntense]

Oh, and the Yin/Yang is more about duality in perception (male & female, light vs. dark, heaven & earth, passive vs. active, day & night, etc.)

Simplified, it's generally interpreted as "the whole, one with it's opposite, neither alone is complete by itself." It depends on which philosophy you're reading, though. I'm doing the translation from memory, but that's close enough for most of you Westerners. It's a fundamental concept in Eastern philosophy that doesn't have an exact equal in Western philosophy.

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

Matthew 13:24-29

The Parable of the Weeds

24 - Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 - But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 - When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 - The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28 - 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29 - 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

Through this parable Jesus tends to explain pure goodness and pure evil doesn't exist. It all goes together. If you take all bad away, good doesn't mean anything anymore & vice and versa. People have to deal with imperfections of life, and no one needs to fall in extreme behaviors to 'purge' himself ot others. What this parable is trying to say is be surrounded by evil is necessary to learn self control and to improve your behavior.


why didnt jesus just say it ?? whats with the fucking riddles man !!!!! he was son of god surely he knew how to communicate ??

i hate that riddles shit just like fucking shakespeare !! i wish i had time machine - i would go back in time and slap the shit out of him !!

I HATE SHAKESPEARE !!!!!!!!! FUCKING MUTHERFUCKER !

[shysnale]

why didnt jesus just say it ?? whats with the fucking riddles man !!!!! he was son of god surely he knew how to communicate ??

i hate that riddles shit just like fucking shakespeare !! !

Matthew 13

10 the disciples came
and said to him,
"Why do you speak
to them
in parables?"
11 <But answering,>
he said to them,
To you has been given
to know the secrets
of the kingdom of Heaven,
but to them
it has not been given.
12 For <whoever> has,
<to him it will be given>,
and he will have abundance;
but <whoever has not>,
even what he has
will be taken away
<from him>.
13 This is why
I speak to them in parables,
***because
seeing
they do
not see,
and hearing
they do not hear,
nor do they understand.***
14 With them indeed is fulfilled
the prophecy of Isaiah
which says:
`You shall indeed hear
but never understand,
and you shall indeed see
but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart
has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy
of hearing,
and their eyes
they have closed,
lest they should perceive
with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand
with their heart,
and turn for me
to heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes,
for they see,
and your ears,
for they hear.
17 Truly, I say to you,
many prophets
and righteous men
longed to see what you see,
and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear,
and did not hear it."

[shysnale]

Good needs not to be teached. Everybody already has it in him.
Hoo looks like Greece is a nice place to be, I'll pay you a visit one of these days. Remember when you were a little boy, all these running girls around you, you used to put your hand on their butts did you ? And why did you stop ? Did you really become aware it was bad or did someone tell you ? ;)

[ego]

Sure, why not? It would be better during summertime, but winter is fine also. :)

Well, i didnt stop! :o Its not bad to put a hand on a butt!

http://img192.imagevenue.com/loc182/th_55793_4utis09_123_182lo.jpg (http://img192.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=55793_4utis09_123_182lo.jpg)





Anyway, i got your point. Someone can understand the bad actions he makes because of the reactions of others. In school, lets say you beat a child and then he cries.
What else you need to understand that beating children is bad?

Actually, listening (or telling) to others about what is good or bad breeds dangers. Go ask a fondamentalist priest what is the good treatment for a rape victim. His answer will vary from whip her to kill her by rocks throwing....

[shysnale]

Sure, why not? It would be better during summertime, but winter is fine also. :)


Yeah baby, I"ve heard it before, last minute you'll say I can't

[solostar]

First of all, let me preface my argument by saying I'm /not/ Christian, I'm Jewish, I just have broadly open views.

Accept these premises and we can get along:

1) Christianity and organized monotheism are a dominant force in our world.
2) They provide moral structure and guidance for a large proportion of humanity.
3) The darkness that lies in the heart of man has been somewhat contained.

By submitting to those three premises, I'd suggest we can carefully and correctly reason that Christianity has been some assistance in human history. Regardless of whether you feel Christianity is right or wrong, it has certainly had a great impact on the way we live our lives, and how far we've advanced.

Judeo-Christianity has been the harbinger of more progress than any other belief system, or system of government, the world has ever seen.

Not a fan of Christianity? How about disinfectants? How about flushing toilets?

From the same society that brought you Christianity... computers.

Thanks, guys.

[ego]

Yeah baby, I"ve heard it before, last minute you'll say I can't

Thats what i call negative thinking! :D


Anyway, i'll say i cant, but my dom female friend will be happy to meet you! :D

[ego]

How about flushing toilets?
:eek:


I understand your point and i agree, but sanitation system has been found in Knossos palace, about 2.500 years before Christ. Ventilation system also, as much as system to supply hot and cold water.

And since we speak about computers, they could make some (analog) back in 80b.c

The Antikythera mechanism:
http://img202.imagevenue.com/loc44/th_63239_Machine_d22Anticyth2E8re_122_44lo.jpg (http://img202.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63239_Machine_d22Anticyth2E8re_122_4 4lo.jpg)




I believe religion's greatest contribute has been the culture it provided. It became the common point of people with no other relation.

[sindyloo]

Great point ego!:skull-thu Most of those inventions were really from ancient Greek....Roman Advances and as well as other BC....Civilations!


But the Chrstians did contribute one main thing that impacted History! And that was no guilt for those soldiers who went out and "Met new and interesting people..........and then killed them!!!

Man, woman and child as all were heathens and had to be killed in the name of the Christian God!


Moving foward a few centurys we then had sudden improvements in torture methods and Equipment........courtsey of the Inquistion!

Or should we argue that all of that did not happen??;) :rolleyes:

[ego]

Yes of course, we "own" a lot to other advanced civs, such as Egyptians, Summerians and many others, i just know more details about Greeks. :)
And Babylon? The greatest of the sities!


And yes, all of that happened (and many more). But can we blame christianity (religion generally) for that?
I believe we should blame christians, not christianity....

[Rogue]

Do not look the flag, look whose hands are holding it.

P.S I liked that last one. I just found my new sig. :)

Love the sig, you should say "at the flag" though :skull-thu

[ego]

Thx Rogue, i'll edit asap. :)

[MADDOGMCMANAMAN]

Matthew 13

10 the disciples came
and said to him,
"Why do you speak
to them
in parables?"
11 <But answering,>
he said to them,
To you has been given
to know the secrets
of the kingdom of Heaven,
but to them
it has not been given.
12 For <whoever> has,
<to him it will be given>,
and he will have abundance;
but <whoever has not>,
even what he has
will be taken away
<from him>.
13 This is why
I speak to them in parables,
***because
seeing
they do
not see,
and hearing
they do not hear,
nor do they understand.***
14 With them indeed is fulfilled
the prophecy of Isaiah
which says:
`You shall indeed hear
but never understand,
and you shall indeed see
but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart
has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy
of hearing,
and their eyes
they have closed,
lest they should perceive
with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand
with their heart,
and turn for me
to heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes,
for they see,
and your ears,
for they hear.
17 Truly, I say to you,
many prophets
and righteous men
longed to see what you see,
and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear,
and did not hear it."

LMAO did u make that up or is that for real ??

[Emily Johnson]

My dear Emily, you have a serious need to read some history of religious events outside the Us, and most importantly, read the new testament. When I'm saying read, it doesn't mean jump from one line to another, really make a stop on Jesus parables and try to understand how they match in a life of a practical christian. Words like obedience or salvation are not needed. There's a lot of parts where Jesus leaves choices to people about what they want to do and wishes then the best for their future. Fear of god is not necessary. The only thing people should be affraid of is ignorance.

Don't get your panties in a wad Snale! This is the rowdy room and i was trying to offend. Kinda surprised no one bit at the al Queda remark actually.

I'm a Unitarian and am very aware that Christianity has a very powerful and attractive message: that of forgiveness. That we can all embrace Christ, be forgiven and start a new life unencumbered by our past sins and shortcomings.

And yes the Bible contains some great stuff, but lots of contradictions too. It's a fine book so long as it is not taken literally.

To be sure I have a strong dislike of Christians that preach the hellfire and not the love and acceptance aspects of the religion.

I am also aware that one reason the western world is blessed is that we went through an enlightenment that allows for secular thought. Look to the Islamic world if you want to see what Christianity would be today sans enlightenment. It is a pity that there are Christian fundamentalists in our midst that would like to roll back time to days before the enlightenment. Those people are scary!

[Emily Johnson]

http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/250/y7693.gif

[Ntense]

From an old book I have titled 'Science Made Stupid'

Creationism vs. Evolutionism
There are still differences of opinion about the descent of man. In the past, there have been bitter disputes over what doctrines should be taught, especially in public schools.

Today however, we understand that all theories should be given equal weight and taught side-by-side. Accordingly, we will outline the two schools of thought and demonstrate the advantages that result from this evenhanded approach.

Evolutionism
Evolutionists hold that man arose by the same gradual process as other creatures. This belief follows from the principle that the same laws of nature apply to man as to the rest of the physical world.
The Evolutionist Model (below) demonstrates how an ancestral "ape-man" could have evolved an upright stance and humanlike physiology. However, it does not explain the tremendous expansion of the intellect and other intangibles that characterize humanity.

http://i7.tinypic.com/7w4kvm9.gif

Creationism
Creationists, on the other hand, believe that man was created instantaneously by a cosmic powered super-being from another dimension. This belief is based on ancient, heavily retranslated writings taken from badly decomposed fragments of scroll found in a series of caves in the middle-east.
The Creationist Model (below) explains the advent of human intelligence by ascribing it to divine fiat in the creation of the first humans, Adam and Eve. A major weakness is that it fails to account for the origin of Adam and Eve's daughters-in-law.

http://i4.tinypic.com/6ouhkzp.gif

A MODERN SOLUTION
Pictured below, we see how an open-minded approach to these conflicting theories can lead to the resolution of a major problem in each.

http://i7.tinypic.com/8bfegr9.gif

REQUIRED NOTICE: This account meets the statutory and regulatory requirements of all U.S. state, county and municipal school boards and districts for works dealing with the origins of man and is warranted to be suitable for use as a teaching tool in accordance with the Guidlines for De Facto Ideological Uniformity of the American Textbook Publishers Association.

[ego]

Has anyone thought that perhaps this is the most prospective approach of the matter?
That man was created and then left to evolve?







This belief is based on ancient, heavily retranslated writings taken from badly decomposed fragments of scroll found in a series of caves in the middle-east.

Only the first half is exact.
Plato left us dialogues between his ancestor and egyptian priests, in which creation is described similarly to the Bible, more detailed however.

The priest claims that the scripts containing that knowledge, are very old. Actually, they spoke with numbers, but its not a number accepted by modern history.

[sindyloo]

Love all the angles and thoughts that you two deep thinkers put into this subject!:skull-thu :D


And its even better that a guy from...Tex-Ass and another guy from Greece can talk over religion without fighting...very Nice!!:skull-lov

But lets look at it a little more shall we? Yes we know that God created Adam and Eve. But who created the rest of the humans on Earth at the time?

After all Cain went out To the "Land of Nod" to live with them and find a wife. So who were these people created by? Was it the same God who created all the Giants...IE...Goliath and others of his kind?

Was Adams God a jealous God and built up the army of Israel to destroy these other races that he didnt create. Guess we will never know?:cool: :cool:

[shysnale]

Hey guys, I'll give you a good reason to believe in God's miracles :

I have a girlfriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnnd dddddddddddddddddddddd

[Ntense]

I *do* believe in spooks! I *do* believe in spooks, I do, I do, I *do* believe in spooks! :skull-big

Congrats! Now you need to know her (in the strict Biblical sense, of course.)
We want details of the begetting. Pictures help.

[shysnale]

I apologize, I'm hangover and just realized he is a tranny.
I quicked him out my bed.

[ego]

And you still believe in miracles or your faith is gone with him? :D

[ego]

Yes we know that God created Adam and Eve. But who created the rest of the humans on Earth at the time?

After all Cain went out To the "Land of Nod" to live with them and find a wife. So who were these people created by? Was it the same God who created all the Giants...IE...Goliath and others of his kind?
When the angel gave forth to them their punishment, he said among other: "Giving birth shall be painful for you....."
That makes me think that perhaps they had another way to give birth before they fall. After all, they were powerful creatures, they were given the power to control the nature, access to free energy and more. Why not being able to create some descendants?

As far as *I* know, giants and other creatures of that kind were not created but borned.


Was Adams God a jealous God and built up the army of Israel to destroy these other races that he didnt create. Guess we will never know?:cool: :cool:
Not really. God himself never interfered. After all, "He is pure and none evil exists in Him", in other words, He loves all of his creatures equally. He would never ask any of them to kill another.

And -again as far as *I* know- at the time those things took place, Israel didnt exist. Not even as an idea.

[shysnale]

And you still believe in miracles or your faith is gone with him? :D

My ass hurts. That's god punishment. Thank you my Lord for this warning.

[sindyloo]

Oh my poor Shysnale....lesson is dear to NOT...over indulge in "the fruit of the vine" other words dont drink so damn much okay?!


And sorry that happened to such a nice guy as you.:eek: :)


ego dear.....God created everything Correct?? And If that is right then he in turn created....Satan to vex all of us until he is chained up.

But still it was a act of kindness I think, as it teaches us humility and a dependence for peace and love from God!:skull-lov

Oh and good point on them being divine beings until that damn fruit thing happened?! Then their eyes were opened and God in his wisdom not only kicked them out but lifted their divinty from them...making them as we are now mortal..."eating of the dirt until our deaths"/painful child births and for the women(thanks EVE:skull-ton ) a montly issue that makes us ...unclean!

[Ntense]

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee254/something_clever666/Jesus.jpg

[Number7]

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee254/something_clever666/Jesus.jpg

When you say it like that....

WHAT THE HELL HAVE I BEEN THINKING ALL THIS TIME?!

[Ntense]

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff294/DrKillPatient/jesus.jpg

[Ntense]

http://i19.tinypic.com/89kbqfm.jpg

Stirrin' up a little Christmas cheer! :skull-ny:

[ego]

Christmas in Greece is canceled! :(


They tried to find three wise wizzards and a virgin, but there wasnt any... :D

[sindyloo]

very funny ego!!:skull-thu

Well dont come to the States either as there is a.."Wise Ass" everywhere....and a "Hooker" on every corner!?;) :skull-big

[ego]

http://i14.tinypic.com/85m739d.jpg

[darklotusjv]

and to top it all off, the priests, rabbi's fathers, reverends, etc are supposed to be the messengers of god pfft, yeah, and im the mofoin tooth faerie, they are the most sinful people on this foresaken excuse of a dust bunny caught in the gravitational orbit of a light bulb.

[Ntense]

...Well don't come to the States either as there is a.."Wise Ass" everywhere....and a "Hooker" on every corner!?;) :skull-big

Gee, I've been hanging out on the wrong corners! :skull-tea

http://i10.tinypic.com/86y3n7b.jpg

[sindyloo]

Did he gift the troubled city with a pristine gift of white snow for the people living there?

Perhaps to show them he hasnt forsaken them and this was a sign of hope for them?!


Or do the cynics out there just think this was a freak act of nature??:cool:

[Ntense]

Naw, it's just God fuckin' with 'em...

...first you sucker 'em in with 100 years of no snow, then drop it on 'em unannounced! Oops, forgot to buy a winter coat when you bought the burkha, huh?

[Ntense]

See, we CAN all live together! :D

http://i29.tinypic.com/9776a1.jpg

[Ntense]

OMG, it's all so clear to me now!!! :skull-evi

http://i26.tinypic.com/indaoz.jpg

He's in yur Vatican, steelin yur solez.

[stricken]

It is ironic when someone makes a post about "Christians being hypocrites" as it is some new revelation. Like.. "Oh,, I never thought about it that way, thank you for enlightening me ctomie".

The word Christian refers to a TON of religions and beliefs and includes most of the population. "Christians" will be "hypocrites" because they are human like the rest of us -but choose to "try" to lead a life that is sinless which is impossible.

So, if we are all human, and will all sin and will be hypocritable.. why base your opinion on religion on the followers, and not the big guy himself?

[Demon King]

I know i have been gone awhile and the last post was awhile ago but still the fact remains that christians are the biggest hypocrites and personally i can say i am not a hypocrite i prqactice what i preach and i live my life the way i would expect others to. I do not expect more from anyone just because i am me and believe what i believe. yet here we have the cathlics preaching that rape is bad molesting is bad and what do they do the rape little boys and not mention that being gay is a sin to christians as well so ther is a prime example of christians being hypocrits right here and now.

[Stainless Steel Rat]

I know i have been gone awhile and the last post was awhile ago but still the fact remains that christians are the biggest hypocrites and personally i can say i am not a hypocrite i prqactice what i preach and i live my life the way i would expect others to. I do not expect more from anyone just because i am me and believe what i believe. yet here we have the cathlics preaching that rape is bad molesting is bad and what do they do the rape little boys and not mention that being gay is a sin to christians as well so ther is a prime example of christians being hypocrits right here and now.

If responding in this thread again is the best you could come up with then perhaps you should have stayed gone. Since lumping all members of ANY group together with a blanket statement is foolish, how much more foolish is it to mindlessly parrot an "I agree" to such rubbish? And since you responded to this post already more than a year ago and obviously have nothing new to add it's likely you are simply trying to cause mischief. I would suggest for your future posts that you make use of a spell checker so that at least you can generate the illusion that you have some intelligent thought behind what you mindlessly post here on the forum.

Cheers all from the Stainless Steel Rat :skull-bee

[FuckingRotter]

Communism, another belief system beset with iconography, superstition and hypocrisy, rigourously enforced by a despotic hierarchy, all underpinned by a creation myth - the myth that men can be recreated equal....