Religion is Evil

[Grm]

Religion is Evil
by
Josh Becker


I've just read the second article in two days about Mel Gibson's upcoming, self-financed film about the death of Jesus, "The Passion," and the controversy it's already causing before almost anyone has seen it. I just want to add in my two-cents' worth before I've seen it, either.
In point of fact, I don't give a good Goddamn about Gibson's movie or Mel Gibson, for that matter. I think he's a third-rate director and a second-rate actor who's never had the ability to master his American accent, and sounds like he comes from America's 51st state -- the state of anemia.
As these articles keep pointing out, Mel is part of a religious sect called "Catholic Traditionalists," who didn't even have a church in Los Angeles, so Mel went and built one. These nuts only perform their services in Latin, and have broken from the Roman Catholic Church over the Vatican's 1965 accord wherein they finally exonerated the Jews for the death of Jesus. But Mel's not willing to go there. He and the other Traditionalists obviously still harbor a grudge that the Jews were culpable for the death of Jesus.
Perhaps if the Jews actually ran Israel at the time of Jesus' death they would have been responsible, but of course they didn't. The Romans ran Israel and most of the world at that time and it was their rules everyone was following. Which isn't to say that the Jews themselves might not have executed Jesus for being a rabble-rouser, but they certainly wouldn't have crucified him -- that's a Roman tradition, and the Romans were rather traditionalists in their own way.
You know what? Who gives a flying fuck? Hello! This was 2,000 years ago.
But all of this meaningless hoopla just brings up other issues for me. First of all, Jim Caviezel plays Jesus in "The Passion." One more time a gutless motherfucker has cast a gentile as a Jew. Doesn't this offend anyone else but me? Jesus was Jewish. He was born a Jew, raised a Jew, and died a Jew, and all in the land of the Jews, Israel. His parents were Jews, all of the apostles were Jews, everyone he knew was Jewish, and if he returned today he wouldn't go to church he'd go to synagogue. The fact that over a billion Christians get down on their knees and pray to a dead Jew has always amused and fascinated me from the time I was a little kid.
But I'm going to take this whole issue one big step farther. Religion, of any denomination, sect or ilk, is the basis of nearly all that's evil on our lovely planet. Religion is not here to make anything better, it's only purpose to divide and separate us. We're the chosen people, you're not. Our God is the real God, yours is false and profane. Although we must show love and compassion for other members of our own religion, those of any other can be killed, tortured, and maimed because they're infidels. Religion, at its very heart, means I'm right and you're wrong, or you're right and I'm wrong, but someone's always got to be wrong.
I say that religion is the pretext for evil on our planet. Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds.

The basis of all Judeo-Christian religions, which includes Islam, is the old testament bible, which states very clearly "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Although I didn't know it at the time, nor is it even my title, the name of my first film is really much more appropriate: "Thou Shalt Not Kill . . . Except." As George Carlin so aptly put it, except "if you believe in another invisible man than I do." In which case the root and basis of all these religions, the ten commandments, can be happily and easily be tossed out.
Evil does not run around in a red devil suit with horns. Evil runs around as fundamentalists of every kind, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu. I'll leave out the Buddhists and the Quakers because I don't think they have ever bothered anybody. But they certainly aren't joining in with the rest of us, either. Religion is about separation, me and you, them and us, it has nothing to do with living with the rest of humanity in peace. Therefore, religion is the basis of evil.
Catholic priests have been seducing and raping young boys for over a hundred years, but are adamantly against homosexuality. Muslims say they believe in the ten commandments and that Abraham, Isaac, and Moses were all holy men, but all Muslims believe in the jihad and that anyone who is not a Muslim ought to be, and eventually will be, killed. Fundamentalist Christians, who also purport to believe in the ten commandments, really believe that when the apocalypse comes and Jesus returns, all the Jews will either have to convert to Christianity or will be killed, and that's perfectly okay. Of course, Jesus will be in the nearest synagogue praying to Yaweh while this mass murder is going on. And the Jews and Hindus all believe that they are the real chosen people and everyone is just screwed anyway.
This is all moronic, simple-minded, idiotic, pre-civilized, childish thinking. Any name that we knuckleheaded humans can give to this incredible animating power that we call God, be it Jehovah, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, or Zoroaster, are all ridiculous bullshit.
As Joseph Campbell, the great historian of mythology, so clearly pointed out, anyone that takes any of these old books of mythology literally has completely missed the point. The bibles old and new, the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Zoroaster, and all the rest of the "holy" books are merely collections of mythology. They are metaphors and parables about how to live your life and how to face death. They are highly imperfect users manuals on how to get through this veil of tears we call life. If you actually believe that Jehovah is an old (white) man with a long beard who is watching each and every one of us over six billion humans and judging us, you're an imbecile. If you literally believe that Jesus is Jehovah's son, you've decided to turn off a big portion of your brain and not deal with reality. If you literally believe that if you kill an infidel that Allah will bless you with seventy-two virgins in the land of milk and honey, you've definitely got a screw loose. These are all myths. Period.
Yes, there probably were guys named Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha, but they were humans just like the rest of us. The fact that a lot of other desperate, unquestioning people gathered to them doesn't make them anything other than plain old humans.

Religion is all based on weakness and laziness. It's the throwing in of the towel on the mysteries of life. It's saying, I can't make head or tail out of any of this shit, so I'll just go with what everyone is doing. If they're all getting down on their knees, eating a cookie and believing it's the body of Christ, then I will too. If they're all wrapping themselves in leather thongs, covering their heads with beanies, and rocking back and forth, that's what I'll do. If everybody else is bowing to Mecca six times a day, I guess that's what I must do, too. This is the behavior of lemmings following other lemmings off the edge of the cliff. There is absolutely no difference between praying to Jesus, praying to Jehovah, bowing to Mecca, or lighting incense to Krishna, than there is sieg heiling to Hitler, blindly following Pol Pot into the killing fields, or chopping up Tutsis with machetes. It's all called thoughtless behavior.
It's part of our job as humans to think about and consider our place here on the planet and our position amongst all these other people. The second you abnegate this responsibility, you've fallen into an evil trap. As the writer Harlan Ellison has said, "We're all the same person under different skins," and that's truly a holy thought. All the religions on Earth want to point out is that we are all different, and we of our religion are better than those other unholy blasphemers. That's evil. And that is what all religion at its core is all about. Us and them. We're holy, they're infidels.
A word religions seem to really like, particularly the Jews is "tradition," which is the handing down of beliefs or customs from one generation to the next. This is another form of acceptance without questioning. For several hundred years an American tradition was, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." A good old Australian tradition was "the Abo-hunt," where they tracked down and shot the Aboriginal people for amusement. A good old European tradition was the pogrom, where, if your luck had turned sour, go kill some Jews. The Russians loved this tradition, but the French and Germans thought it was a pretty swell tradition, too. And it's always been a tradition of the Serbs to hate the Croats, the Hutus to hate the Tutsis, whites to hate blacks, Christians to hate Jews, Jews to hate the Palestinians, Hindus to hate the Muslims, and Muslims to hate everybody.
Well, let's just thank God for tradition, sing songs in its praise and dance the Hora.
Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others.

[cleanfun4all]

Nah, religion isn't the cause of evil in the world. The evil lies deep in the human heart. Religion is just the excuse. The following is a nice sumation of the real problem.


"Only part of us is sane: only part of us loves pleasure and the longer day of happiness, wants to live to our nineties and die in peace, in a house that we built, that shall shelter those who come after us. The other half of us is nearly mad. It prefers the disagreeable to the agreeable, loves pain and its darker night despair and wants to die in a catastrophe that will set back life to its beginnings and leave nothing of our house save its blackened foundations."

Rebecca West

[Buzzzkill]

Nah, religion has got to be a cause. I doubt anyone would end thier own life kamakazaing skyscrapers if they didn't have a firm belief that they were about to be eternially rewarded, and would Jews and Muslims be exchanging atrocities if there were no Holy Land to vie for? Now, atheists and secularists have done some pretty horrible things as well; but on the whole they don't kill quite as much, don't block science, don't make kinky sex a criminal act, commit genocide, or fuck with our rights like the religious assholes do.

[Lupo]

Nah, religion isn't the cause of evil in the world. The evil lies deep in the human heart.

I agree completely. Religion is not the cause. Just a tool for some. Humans are to blame and humans have always killed eachother. Religion or no religion. Whoever thinks that this fact will change if we lived in a world without religion, has to be extremly naive.

[persiangurl]

Nah, religion isn't the cause of evil in the world. The evil lies deep in the human heart. Religion is just the excuse. The following is a nice sumation of the real problem.


"Only part of us is sane: only part of us loves pleasure and the longer day of happiness, wants to live to our nineties and die in peace, in a house that we built, that shall shelter those who come after us. The other half of us is nearly mad. It prefers the disagreeable to the agreeable, loves pain and its darker night despair and wants to die in a catastrophe that will set back life to its beginnings and leave nothing of our house save its blackened foundations."

Rebecca West
omg, youre such a fucking idiot

[cleanfun4all]

omg, youre such a fucking idiot


Sorry sweetie, you're a troll and I don't waste my time with trolls. Insult me all you want, I have now replied for the last time.

[somedude]

If persiangurl is a troll, she's one hell of a hot troll!!! :D Now on the subject of riligion being evil, it's not all evil. But there are some really evil fuckers involved in a lot of them. I know, I was in a religious cult for almost a year when I was a kid.
I'm not joking and no sympathy posts please. Religion is commonly missused by corrupt people for their own ends, wether it is for power, money or other things. Seen it up close and personal. It's about the people, not the religion!

[cleanfun4all]

If persiangurl is a troll, she's one hell of a hot troll!!! :D

The definition of a troll, as I used the word.


In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as in online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants. "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity.

[somedude]

The definition of a troll, as I used the word.


In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as in online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants. "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity.
Yeah, I understood the concept. She's still hot!!! :D

[Grm]

Nah, religion isn't the cause of evil in the world. The evil lies deep in the human heart. Religion is just the excuse. The following is a nice sumation of the real problem.


"Only part of us is sane: only part of us loves pleasure and the longer day of happiness, wants to live to our nineties and die in peace, in a house that we built, that shall shelter those who come after us. The other half of us is nearly mad. It prefers the disagreeable to the agreeable, loves pain and its darker night despair and wants to die in a catastrophe that will set back life to its beginnings and leave nothing of our house save its blackened foundations."

Rebecca West
I think what ms west is saying, is that we all have a choice, either our bad side or our good. But personal resposibility is more often subject to our upbringing and the society we live in. Organised religious groups have an inordinate influence on their adherents.In almost every war that has ever been faught, each side was convinced that 'god' was on their side. Through the centuries millions have perished in the name of religion and sadly still continue to do so.
Humanist
Grm :(

[gal4]

I'm an atheist, Thank God!
--G.B. Shaw.

[cleanfun4all]

I think what ms west is saying, is that we all have a choice, either our bad side or our good. But personal resposibility is more often subject to our upbringing and the society we live in. Organised religious groups have an inordinate influence on their adherents.In almost every war that has ever been faught, each side was convinced that 'god' was on their side. Through the centuries millions have perished in the name of religion and sadly still continue to do so.
Humanist
Grm :(


First, I'm not religious at all, but it can be argued that the world would actually be a far worse place were it not for the civilizing influence of religion.

You are right about the inordinatate influence that organized religion has on it's followers, but here's the thing, God didn't create organized religion, people did. In the absence of religion based on the invisible man in the sky, it is not at all difficult for a leader to turn himself into a god of sorts and the state as the church. Think Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union under Stalin. How many millions died because of those "religions?"

[gal4]

Ecclesiastes Ch7:29.

29 See, this alone I found, that God made human beings straightforward, but they have devised many schemes.

[Grm]

First, I'm not religious at all, but it can be argued that the world would actually be a far worse place were it not for the civilizing influence of religion.

You are right about the inordinatate influence that organized religion has on it's followers, but here's the thing, God didn't create organized religion, people did. In the absence of religion based on the invisible man in the sky, it is not at all difficult for a leader to turn himself into a god of sorts and the state as the church. Think Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union under Stalin. How many millions died because of those "religions?"

All religions have a hierarchy of, surprise, surprise, men. It is all about power, power over women, power over the people. Man had to invent religion to explain his inpending death, this is the central theme of all religions. What is the most powerfull concept? Power over peoples thought.If you can control peoples thought, you have ultimate control over their actions. Luckily for the planet its not only religion that has a 'civilising influence', its mostly peoples 'good side' that keeps most of us from hurting others. Stalin was an exponent of communism, which is a sort of religion, as it seeks to control peoples thought. Both Stalin and Hitler had to break the churchs' power, so they could take it for themselves.
Humanist
Grm

[gal4]

It is wonderful that everyone thinks they have found the truth.
And reason and rational thinking will lead to salvation of man, his soul and society.

Koan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan)

[Rogue]

While some religions reduce the value of human life, even the closest ones to being “right” reduce the value of the human mind. The only times I have read the bible or paid attention to what a priest said was when I was either incapable of challenging anything at that age or I had to go along with it because it was school. It’s now I realise, that that’s the way religion likes it. It doesn't want you to grow up or step back from being a clone for a moment and simply challenge what people around you believe so easily. “It” being the people who now interpret it and fail miserably to apply it to modern times. It says that regardless how much society and humanity has developed, this pre fixed belief must somehow, continue without exception. It’s at this point when you should step back and rely on your mind. Whoever you are, no doubt it’ll have been influenced by something other than religion. Attitudes and old grudges for example from your parents or other important people in your life. But if you are sane, your family has allowed your mind to be as free as you’d hope, and have never challenged beliefs, then I pity you. Because it’s these “correct” beliefs that are mostly the cause of all the wars and deaths you read about in history books, don’t you think they’re worth examining? The beliefs that seriously reduce the value of human life, include strict upbringing etc. I don’t pity those people, I just hate their religion. But not because I think they’re wrong and I’m right, that would be dividing and separating people, which even my old one did, whether people want to admit it or not. I hate it because it’ll always be there like a cancer to stop people from doing what I did and think for themselves. For that, I consider it and all religion evil. It's not the ultimate evil, but I think it is none the less. The people who realise that no one knows anything for sure, are the ones who are right.

[gal4]

What is the definition of religion?
I have to admit that I don't have a clear idea of what it is.

Do you people know what it is?

Otherwise, it would be like the fable of the six blind men and the elephant.

Anything that would cause so much oppression, suffering, and misdirection cannot be called religion.

"Oh, Lord, I beleive, Help Thou, My Unbelief"

There is a lot to be said of the contentment of mind and spirit.

Because once you attain it. Nothing else matters.

Remember, my sister beating me severely, but I could withstand it.

I did not break.

Sort of similar to Jean Paul Satre, when interrogated and tortured by the Germans, discovered that there was sitll something inside him, still defiant, still could say "No". That to me is much more satisfying than just a useless parody of this so called established "state" religion.

If you would truly attack religon, attack its cornerstone, faiith.

Especially, by "Hume's Wrecking Ball".

_Named after David Hume, Scottish philosopher of the 18th century. His ideas represent a radical paradigm shift, often referred to as 'Hume's wrecking ball.'

_Reality (our understanding of it) is the product of the observer.

_No dichotomy is recognized between objective and subjective because the observer is always part of the system being observed.

_Science is not a topological map of reality. Rather, it invents reality.
Laws of science are inventions that model reality, describing in a non-contradictory way predictable relations between variables. Therefore, there can be more than one possible realities.
(If this is the case, how can we distinguish between good/bad, right/wrong inventions?
What are the evaluation criteria?)
Facts and truths are not related isomorphically. A fact/truth is not something fixed but a reliable event; something that is repeatable.

_Science, therefore, does not deal with fixed truths but with facts understood probabilistically.

_Question of Reliability: Does the science prove what it purports to relative to a given context?

_Question of Validity: What is the relevance of the reliable world, created/constructed for scientific investigation, to the world of our experience (musical or otherwise)?
http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/courses/276/carthume.htm


Now, what else is to be done?

[Grm]

What is inner spirit ? Does it set us free ?
Or give us strength? Deep in us is solace,
wherever we go or bring, flying out towards the sun,
or crashing down to earth, we can endure, we will,
none can save us but, our inner self to fight,
and kick to the surface, gasping our life back again,
only in us is the belief, the faith of one.
grm

[pbhoco]

Religon TRULY is an EVIL........BAN GOD...and the world will be peaceful.
Makes me wonder; shouldn't god be sent to the war crimes tribunal for
the crimes commited in his name by fanatic followers?After all the High
command is always guilty...for the crimes commited by the subordinates
......isnt it?

[gal4]

ON MORAL JUSTIFICATION AND THE EUTHYPHRO

In Plato's dialogue the Euthyphro, Euthyphro is trying to justify his actions, i.e., prosecuting his own father, by appealing to the gods. His claim is that it is the "pious" thing to do. This leads Socrates to inquire of Euthyphro, "what is piety." Euthyphro's first (actually, second) response is that what is pious is what is loved by the gods. Socrates points out that the gods often disagree, some thinking that one particular action is pious while others call the same action impious. This is an inadequate definition of the pious, as the same action turns out to be both pious and impious at the same time. This leads Euthyphro to fix his definition by saying that what is loved by all the gods is pious, what is hated by all the gods is impious, and that about which there is disagreement is neither pious nor impious. (Notice that this now brings the argument into a monotheistic context.) In response to this, Socrates asks Euthyphro "do the gods love what is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" What one can derive from the modernized version of the question (which is "does God do what is good, or is what God does good simply because God does it?") is the following. If God does and commands us to do what is good, and, likewise, forbids us to do what is bad, then presumably God does such things for a reason. If God does these things for a reason, then that reason is what makes the action right or wrong and not the mere fact that God commanded or forbade the action. (Remember the OT example of God forbidding the Hebrews to eat pigs--it was unclean because it was actually unsafe.) On the other hand, if whatever God does is good simply because God does it (which precludes the possibility of God's having a reason for doing the action), then morality is ultimately arbitrary, as we never know from one day to the next what God is going to like or dislike. If one responds that God is only going to like what is good, then this leads her into saying that God does what is good, and not whatever God does is good simply because God does it.

Remember the Jerusalem story. Imagine in 30 A.D., there were two people in Jerusalem doing messiah like things. We gather the town's people together to figure out which one is the messiah. We explain to each of the "messiahs" our problem. So we get them together and ask Jesus #1 to show us some kind of a sign that he is the messiah. He then heals a palsied woman and she runs off singing God's praises. We then ask the same thing of Jesus #2. He picks out a man who we all know to be a decent sort of fellow, neither extremely good nor extremely bad, points his finger at the man, and starts ripping him limb from limb with lightening bolts. Which one is the Messiah? Jesus #1, of course, because he did what was good. But, if what God does is good simply because God does it, we would have no grounds to prefer one messiah over the other. In fact, we would have no way of knowing what, at any given moment, was moral, as we would have no way of knowing whether or not God had changed her preference. If you say that God would never change preferences because God is good, then my point is proven! God does what is good, so our job is to figure out what "good" is.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/hilde/Philhandouts/Euthyphro(Myers).html


So, now ya know.

Now, one can extend the above argument to say that religion does what is good, and not everything religion does is good, because religion does it.
Yeah.

[Grm]

Trust you gal,
This is a very interesting argument, what is good?
How do we know? hmm, I think this relates to love.
Our mothers love us, without judgment, instinctivly protecting her offspring,
nurturing us to adult. Later we form relationships forged to create the next generation, without co-operation we cannot survive.
so we are good to those we love and those around us that are our extended family.

[gal4]

You are welcome, but then based on what you say, what is to separate religon from an expired philosophical system such as Mohism?

Mohism
Doctrines The doctrines of Mohism are to be found in the work Mo-tzu, named after the founder of the Moist tradition Mo Ti (c. 470-390 BCE). Although attributed to Mo Ti, the Mo-tzu was probably composed over a number of generations by Mo Ti's disciples. The Mo-tzu originally consisted of 71 chapters, but 16 of these have been lost.
It is in the Essays section of the Mo-tzu we that we find the key principles of Moism.
Universal love. In contrast to the Confucianists, who taught that devotion was particularly due to one's family, Moism prescribed equal love for all people.
Opposition to offensive war. Mo Ti opposed all forms of aggressive action, particularly in the form of large states attacking smaller ones. He did, however, accept that it was legitimate to use force to defend those who are being attacked.
Opposition to music. Mo Ti regarded music as a source of extravagance, associating it with dance, flamboyance and a waste of public resources which could be used to feed, shelter and protect people.
Opposition to elaborate funerals. Funerals were excessively expensive and the time of mourning excessively lengthy.
Divine retribution. Mo Ti believed that heaven is a personal force which knows of the misdeeds that people perform and punishes people for them. Such a belief serves to encourage people to conduct themselves morally.
Government. Unlike Confucius, Mo-tzu did not accept the tradition that emperors derive their mandate from heaven; instead the position of the emperor should be based solely on merit. While the emperor should be obeyed, people have the right to criticise the emperor if his actions are not in accord with the will of heaven.

History The school of Moism was founded by Mo Ti, who was born shortly after the death of Confucius. Mo Ti lived during the period of the warring states, which was characterised by chaos, confusion and conflict between the various feudal states. Mo Ti sought to address the problems of his period through creating a philosophy based on universal love and promoting attitudes and conduct that is most useful to people. Mo Ti lived out the principles of his philosophy. It is recorded that on one occasion he walked ten days and ten nights to prevent a larger state from attacking a smaller one.
The Moist movement was highly authoritarian. Mo Ti was treated by his followers as virtually infallible, and his successors were also accorded great obedience by their followers. During the fourth century BCE the movement was strong enough to rival Confucianism. That this was so is borne out by the fact that prominent Confucianist philosophers felt the need to attack Moist teaching. Mencius (371-289) denounced the doctrine of universal love as one that undermined children's relations with their parents and fit only for "beasts". Hsun-tzu attacked Mo Ti's opposition to music as indicative of a lack of refinement on the part of Mo Ti.
During the third century BCE the movement went into decline, all but disappearing by the time of the unification of China in 221 BCE. Little interest was paid to the Mo-tzu until the arrival of Christianity in China, when scholars explored the similarities between Moist and Christian teaching on universal love. Later, during the communist period Moism received some official sympathy because of its opposition to aristocratic privilege.

http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/china/mohism.html

[MarcEdeSade]

omg, youre such a fucking idiot

You REALLY need a man to slap you around, doncha?

[gal4]

You REALLY need a man to slap you around, doncha?

My hero! leave a gash mark right here buddy, it is so much for fashionable.

fashion (http://www.iconique.com/flash/style-edition33.html)

[persiangurl]

You REALLY need a man to slap you around, doncha?


only if u wanna be slapped back right in the nuts dear :)

[Grm]

OMG :eek:, Gal and PG! Bloody hell man, if these wildcats team up I fear for your balls.
hiding under the covers
Grm

[somedude]

You are welcome, but then based on what you say, what is to separate religon from an expired philosophical system such as Mohism?
Huh, I always thought Moeism was worship of the Three Stooges! :D

[Jennysnowbabe]

This thread makes me never want to post on this site again. Omg, shut up.

[gal4]

Huh, I always thought Moeism was worship of the Three Stooges! :D

That's right, you numbskull!!!

[somedude]

That's right, you numbskull!!!
That's a title of honor among Moeists! :D

[somedude]

This thread makes me never want to post on this site again. Omg, shut up.
LMAO!!! :D Even though I know you were serious!!!

[gal4]

oH, REALLY???

THE STOOGES LYRICS

"Raw Power"

(burp)
Dance to the beet of the living dead
Lose sleep baby and stay away from bed
Raw power is sure to come a running to you
If you're alone and you got the shakes
So am I baby and I got what it takes
Raw power will surely come a running to you
Raw power got a healing hand
Raw power can destroy a man
Raw power is more than soul
Has got a son called rock and roll
Raw power honey just won't quit
Raw power I can feel it
Raw power baby can't be beat
Popping eyes and flashing feet
Everybody's always trying to tell me what to do
Don't you try
Don 't you try to tell me what to do
Look in the eye of the savage girl
Fall deep in love in the underworld
Raw power is sure to come a running to you
If you're alone and you got the fear
So am I baby let's move on out of here
Raw power is sure to come a running to you
Raw power got a magic touch
Raw power is much too much
Happiness is guaranteed
It was made for you and me
Raw power honey just won't quit
Raw power I can feel it
Raw power honey can't be beat
Get down and kiss my feet
Raw power's got no place to go
Raw power honey
It don't want to know
Raw power is a guaranteed o.d.
Raw power is laughing at you and me
And this is what I want to know
Can you feel it
Can you feel it
Can you feel it
Can you feel it
Raw power! raw power!
Raw power! raw power!
Can you feel it?

[Grm]

This thread makes me never want to post on this site again. Omg, shut up. What is your objection to this thread Jenny? Is it the subject? Or some of the satirical replies?

[shysnale]

Religion is Evil
by
Josh Becker


I've just read the second article in two days about Mel Gibson's upcoming, self-financed film about the death of Jesus, "The Passion," and the controversy it's already causing before almost anyone has seen it. I just want to add in my two-cents' worth before I've seen it, either.
In point of fact, I don't give a good Goddamn about Gibson's movie or Mel Gibson, for that matter. I think he's a third-rate director and a second-rate actor who's never had the ability to master his American accent, and sounds like he comes from America's 51st state -- the state of anemia.
As these articles keep pointing out, Mel is part of a religious sect called "Catholic Traditionalists," who didn't even have a church in Los Angeles, so Mel went and built one. These nuts only perform their services in Latin, and have broken from the Roman Catholic Church over the Vatican's 1965 accord wherein they finally exonerated the Jews for the death of Jesus. But Mel's not willing to go there. He and the other Traditionalists obviously still harbor a grudge that the Jews were culpable for the death of Jesus.
Perhaps if the Jews actually ran Israel at the time of Jesus' death they would have been responsible, but of course they didn't. The Romans ran Israel and most of the world at that time and it was their rules everyone was following. Which isn't to say that the Jews themselves might not have executed Jesus for being a rabble-rouser, but they certainly wouldn't have crucified him -- that's a Roman tradition, and the Romans were rather traditionalists in their own way.
You know what? Who gives a flying fuck? Hello! This was 2,000 years ago.
But all of this meaningless hoopla just brings up other issues for me. First of all, Jim Caviezel plays Jesus in "The Passion." One more time a gutless motherfucker has cast a gentile as a Jew. Doesn't this offend anyone else but me? Jesus was Jewish. He was born a Jew, raised a Jew, and died a Jew, and all in the land of the Jews, Israel. His parents were Jews, all of the apostles were Jews, everyone he knew was Jewish, and if he returned today he wouldn't go to church he'd go to synagogue. The fact that over a billion Christians get down on their knees and pray to a dead Jew has always amused and fascinated me from the time I was a little kid.
But I'm going to take this whole issue one big step farther. Religion, of any denomination, sect or ilk, is the basis of nearly all that's evil on our lovely planet. Religion is not here to make anything better, it's only purpose to divide and separate us. We're the chosen people, you're not. Our God is the real God, yours is false and profane. Although we must show love and compassion for other members of our own religion, those of any other can be killed, tortured, and maimed because they're infidels. Religion, at its very heart, means I'm right and you're wrong, or you're right and I'm wrong, but someone's always got to be wrong.
I say that religion is the pretext for evil on our planet. Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds.

The basis of all Judeo-Christian religions, which includes Islam, is the old testament bible, which states very clearly "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Although I didn't know it at the time, nor is it even my title, the name of my first film is really much more appropriate: "Thou Shalt Not Kill . . . Except." As George Carlin so aptly put it, except "if you believe in another invisible man than I do." In which case the root and basis of all these religions, the ten commandments, can be happily and easily be tossed out.
Evil does not run around in a red devil suit with horns. Evil runs around as fundamentalists of every kind, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu. I'll leave out the Buddhists and the Quakers because I don't think they have ever bothered anybody. But they certainly aren't joining in with the rest of us, either. Religion is about separation, me and you, them and us, it has nothing to do with living with the rest of humanity in peace. Therefore, religion is the basis of evil.
Catholic priests have been seducing and raping young boys for over a hundred years, but are adamantly against homosexuality. Muslims say they believe in the ten commandments and that Abraham, Isaac, and Moses were all holy men, but all Muslims believe in the jihad and that anyone who is not a Muslim ought to be, and eventually will be, killed. Fundamentalist Christians, who also purport to believe in the ten commandments, really believe that when the apocalypse comes and Jesus returns, all the Jews will either have to convert to Christianity or will be killed, and that's perfectly okay. Of course, Jesus will be in the nearest synagogue praying to Yaweh while this mass murder is going on. And the Jews and Hindus all believe that they are the real chosen people and everyone is just screwed anyway.
This is all moronic, simple-minded, idiotic, pre-civilized, childish thinking. Any name that we knuckleheaded humans can give to this incredible animating power that we call God, be it Jehovah, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, or Zoroaster, are all ridiculous bullshit.
As Joseph Campbell, the great historian of mythology, so clearly pointed out, anyone that takes any of these old books of mythology literally has completely missed the point. The bibles old and new, the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Zoroaster, and all the rest of the "holy" books are merely collections of mythology. They are metaphors and parables about how to live your life and how to face death. They are highly imperfect users manuals on how to get through this veil of tears we call life. If you actually believe that Jehovah is an old (white) man with a long beard who is watching each and every one of us over six billion humans and judging us, you're an imbecile. If you literally believe that Jesus is Jehovah's son, you've decided to turn off a big portion of your brain and not deal with reality. If you literally believe that if you kill an infidel that Allah will bless you with seventy-two virgins in the land of milk and honey, you've definitely got a screw loose. These are all myths. Period.
Yes, there probably were guys named Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha, but they were humans just like the rest of us. The fact that a lot of other desperate, unquestioning people gathered to them doesn't make them anything other than plain old humans.

Religion is all based on weakness and laziness. It's the throwing in of the towel on the mysteries of life. It's saying, I can't make head or tail out of any of this shit, so I'll just go with what everyone is doing. If they're all getting down on their knees, eating a cookie and believing it's the body of Christ, then I will too. If they're all wrapping themselves in leather thongs, covering their heads with beanies, and rocking back and forth, that's what I'll do. If everybody else is bowing to Mecca six times a day, I guess that's what I must do, too. This is the behavior of lemmings following other lemmings off the edge of the cliff. There is absolutely no difference between praying to Jesus, praying to Jehovah, bowing to Mecca, or lighting incense to Krishna, than there is sieg heiling to Hitler, blindly following Pol Pot into the killing fields, or chopping up Tutsis with machetes. It's all called thoughtless behavior.
It's part of our job as humans to think about and consider our place here on the planet and our position amongst all these other people. The second you abnegate this responsibility, you've fallen into an evil trap. As the writer Harlan Ellison has said, "We're all the same person under different skins," and that's truly a holy thought. All the religions on Earth want to point out is that we are all different, and we of our religion are better than those other unholy blasphemers. That's evil. And that is what all religion at its core is all about. Us and them. We're holy, they're infidels.
A word religions seem to really like, particularly the Jews is "tradition," which is the handing down of beliefs or customs from one generation to the next. This is another form of acceptance without questioning. For several hundred years an American tradition was, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." A good old Australian tradition was "the Abo-hunt," where they tracked down and shot the Aboriginal people for amusement. A good old European tradition was the pogrom, where, if your luck had turned sour, go kill some Jews. The Russians loved this tradition, but the French and Germans thought it was a pretty swell tradition, too. And it's always been a tradition of the Serbs to hate the Croats, the Hutus to hate the Tutsis, whites to hate blacks, Christians to hate Jews, Jews to hate the Palestinians, Hindus to hate the Muslims, and Muslims to hate everybody.
Well, let's just thank God for tradition, sing songs in its praise and dance the Hora.
Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others.


As long as we are individuals and no cheeps, we're always going on having understandings problems with the religious writings. If you take time to read the New Testament without thinking about the heavy history behind it, you will find a lot of parable showing up the 'interdependence' between the human being and the nature. That is the basis of any spiritual practice. Practicing the view of interdependence helps people forget about every 'ego based' kind of evil. (Selfishness, pride, jealousy, etc...). This IF properly done doesn't tend to push people in just ONE way of thinking and acting. As far as we're individuals, we can't apply in real life exactly what we read in a book. We all need a spiritual guide (Priest, Imam, etc..) to help us 'adapt' the religious teachings in order to work on our personal weaknesses instead of working on the most common weaknesses. The brain-dead people you describe in your post are the victims of a non personal communal teaching. Do you really think religion leads to passivity and weakness ? Look at the Shoaling Monks. Look at the Templar. Who are they ? They are basically armed monks. If you’re in a situation where the only way to defend the people you love is to kill, then killing is not a sin. That is not only for Christian’s but also in Buddhism, Islam, and Hindu. The real religious goal is merely to cope with the complexity of day to day problems. The thing is that people experiencing great pain need desperately to believe in something simple and straight. Simplicity helps to clarify the mind and to reassure those who are in great misery. They would 'grab' anything that gives them some kind of a 'reassuring structure'. History, facts, scandals, movies, all that tend to add some sort of a emotional & cultural varnish to religion. Religion is not about thinking of some historical incoherence (Abraham was there before Mohamed, etc..) We don’t care about showing up cultural paradox as long as spirituality is there. As well as Jesus created a new religion from his Jewish root, Buddha created a new spirituality from his Hindu root, etc...History, books, movies, and all kind of facts aren't important in understanding the basis of spirituality. Forget about all that, forget about the freaks, take the bible, and read the New Testament. As you know there are 'live' day to day face to face situations between Jesus and the Jerusalem people, without any history to interpret besides. Remember Jesus was just a walking guy whose acts were related later by the Saints. It is human nature to gossip on things and to add artificial stuff on them. If you have such a mental block about the Christians, have a look on Buddhism. I personally am a Buddhist since 2001 and have notices a lot of changes in my life. The funny thing is that I used to share the same anger you have for religion. I am not saying I am a saint, (otherwise I wouldn’t be hanging here), I don’t care if there’s a god watching me everyday, I don’t care if there’s Heaven and Hell, I just care about living a better life right now and become a better person in day to day life, right here right now in the year 2006. That is the only thing religion should push you toward. Don't stay in your position. Give yourself another chance to change your mind about it. If the Bible seems too straight to you at this point of your thinking, try Buddhism with that book : 'The Heart Of The Buddha's Teaching' by Thich Nath Hanh. (6$ - http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Heart-of-the-Buddhas-Teaching-by-Nhat-Hanh-Thi_W0QQitemZ4623941053QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZ WD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) It is a "modern" way of explaining religion and spiritual practice. No heavy history there, no ‘one way’ thinking, and no Mel Gibson.
;)

[gal4]

I have already commented on this thread enough, but will add one more.
During the days following my rape by my sister, the Bible was like a light house for me.
...and I don't give a damn, if Karl Marx did say religeon is the opiate of the Masses. He is dead, and his system is moribund.
Speaking of philosophical system which have attempted to replace religeon, look at Rousseau's "Republic of Virtue", and yeah, the Reign of Terror which followed.
Look at Nietzsche's UberMensch, and Hitler's Germany, and finally look at Marx, and the Russian terror of collectivization.
If you would really read, read Edmund Burke's "Reflection on the Revolution in France", which really exposes the so called "glorious" revolution as a sham.

[shysnale]

I have already commented on this thread enough, but will add one more.
During the days following my rape by my sister, the Bible was like a light house for me.
...and I don't give a damn, if Karl Marx did say religeon is the opiate of the Masses. He is dead, and his system is moribund.
Speaking of philosophical system which have attempted to replace religeon, look at Rousseau's "Republic of Virtue", and yeah, the Reign of Terror which followed.
Look at Nietzsche's UberMensch, and Hitler's Germany, and finally look at Marx, and the Russian terror of collectivization.
If you would really read, read Edmund Burke's "Reflection on the Revolution in France", which really exposes the so called "glorious" revolution as a sham.

I am not sure I see your point here. I was not trying to say the philosophical system which tends to replace religion is what we have to follow. I am saying philosophy is already here in religion (Christianism, Buddhism, Islam) but seems not to be understood by those who need religion to reach a social status, to make money or to find an extreme way of thinking in order to peace up their mind in a easy 'one way of thinking'. Any Jesus's parable leads to a philosophic question if you read it with attention.
Of course the meeting of religion and politic is not always a success. Like I said above the understanding problem can push fanatics to convince themself they can establish fascism or communism for the love of god. But instead of talking about the worst parts of history, why don't you take a look at France for instance. We are still a catholic country and not experiencing any problems with that. We are the country were the social security and the social protection is the most developped. I don't see your point in talking about the french revolution which wasn't a religious problem but a political problem. Monarchy tend to let people living in utter misery. Louis XVI didn't intend anything to get closer to people or just to listen to them. They finally decided to make a revolution in order to insure the same rights for everybody. It was a call for justice and freedom but nothing religious. If you read Hitler's Mein Kampf, you will find that most of his arguments are based on what a fascist political system can bring to a country economicly speaking and not about getting in line with the bible. Hitler was a catholic who had a deep respect for god, but he also was a man who grew up in misery, developing anger and hate for those who putted his country down in the first war. France did put Germany through misery in an awfull way with the 'Versailles Traite'. Everything was there to lead people to fascism. The country was experiencing a severe misery and at the same time a huge immigration. The consequences, the facts, the economic situation led people to fascism, not religion.

[gal4]

The consequences, the facts, the economic situation led people to fascism, not religion.

Thank you for saying that.

[Spaulding4Prez]

Hmm. Josh Becker. Well, I love horror movies, and he worked on Evil Dead which is one of the best movies ever, but he is a bit off the mark here. He poses the question "Who gives a flying fuck" about Jesus dying 2,000 years ago. Well, it is one of the defining moments in human history. No single person has had that big of an impact since. So whether you believe in the man or not, his death is a signifying event in history.

Poor Mr. Becker says "The fact that over a billion Christians get down on their knees and pray to a dead Jew has always amused and fascinated me from the time I was a little kid." Maybe he didn't read the part where Jesus comes back from the dead?

But I will agree with him that religion is evil. Christianity is often confused as a religion rather than what it should be, which is a relationship with God, and the forgiveness of sins by the blood of Jesus, and grace through the Holy Spirit. How many of us are slaves to sin? How many of us are so bitter and hate filled? Truly accepting Jesus is a way to get through that.

[gal4]

Hey, I am a slave. I love being a slave. Slave to my passion for abuse, for pain, for torture. Once during a session, I was beaten so bad, I was left bleeding and barely breathing. A school acquaintance found me and called for an ambulance, and I was hospital bound for five days.
What does this got to with religeon? Nothing except for that fact that I was on the path to self destruction.

Here I was, laying in bed in the hospital, bored to death, tired of watching mindless television, and finally, I got so bored, I did the unthinkable, I picked up the Bible and I had another addiction. Mindless me.

Whatever the consequnces may be, I took a detour from the path of self immolation. And the result of that to my life at least, could be beneficial or detrimental.

So, is religeon evil? It is said that "By their fruits, ye shall know them".
You can only judge an action, or an object by the effects it has on its environment. But here, I am biased, it had a beneficial effect on me.
But, also I read, the effects it has had on other perople.
Most notably this,

Albigensian Crusade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade)

In a way, I will say this, organized religion is truly evil.
Whereas personal religion, such as in my case is not.

And besides, if you don't like it, and sentence me to death for my beliefs, I will go to my death, rather than recant. Further, why not, death would be the ultimate in torture for me. After all I am an intnese masochsist.

Haha.

[cindyq11]

Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?
My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?

Oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv ?
Dialing for dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv ?

Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?
Im counting on you, lord, please dont let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?

Everybody!
Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?
My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?

Thats it!

---Janis Joplin.

[Raymond Pist]

It's long past time to recognize the fact that god did not invent man; MAN INVENTED gOD! In fact man has invented lots of gods over the centuries. Even if there were a god-- and there isn't-- what are the chances that the god that you happen to currently worship is the right god?


Mankind has long had a built-in need to worship at the altar of a non-existent higher being. It is part of man's nature; part of his survival instinct. Observe that the promise of a blissful afterlife is almost always part of the deal when worshiping one of these many fictional supreme beings.


If religion itself is a delusion, then organized religion is a perfect example of mass hysteria. Not to mention a scam of epic proportions. The first and only clue necessary to crack this case wide open should be this: How can it be that the all mighty God, creator of heaven and earth, all knowing all seeing and all powerful entity that he is, IS ALWAYS SHORT ON CASH?!?!?!?!?! What is it that allows such a huge con game to continue? The fact that the only people who have discovered the truth are dead people. By the time they are in a position to collect on the benefits promised by God's salesman, it is too late for them to demand a refund.

---Ray

[Raymond Pist]

where god went wrong: In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. --Douglas Adams

more of god's greatest mistakes: If the Lord Almighty had consulted me before embarking on the creation, I would have recommended something simpler. --Alfonso X., the King of Castile.

who is this God person anyway? The name of this monstrous absurdity is original sin. To hold, as a man's sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality. To hold man's nature as his sin is a mockery of nature. To punish him for a crime he committed before he was born is a mockery of justice. To hold him guilty in a matter where no innocence exists is a mockery of reason. To destroy morality, nature, justice and reason by means of a single concept is a feat of evil hardly to be matched. Yet that is the root of your code.
--Ayn Rand (writing as John Galt) Then, on the same topic in another volume (writing as herself):
What of the child who withdraws in terror...because he cannot cope with the ravings of parents who tell him that he is guilty by nature, that his body is evil, that thinking is sinful, that question-asking is blasphemous, that doubting is depravity, and that he must obey the orders of a supernatural ghost because, if he doesn't, he will burn forever in hell?

[Raymond Pist]

Jesus was being Crucified at the top of the hill. "Come here John." Moaned the Prince of peace.
John attempted to approach, but was stopped at the foot of the hill by a roman guard with a sword. "You might try to help him escape" protested the guard. "if you wish to proceed farther I shall have to cut off your arm." Jesus called out again, and John, knowing he must go to his savior, raised his arm for the guard to amputate.
A bit further up the hill, John was stopped by yet another guard. "you could still carry him away on your back" observed this Guard. "to prevent that, if you wish to go closer, I must cleve off your leg with my sword." again Jesus called out for his disciple, this time more urgently.
John allowed the Guard hack off his leg, and crawled up to the base of the cross.
"What is it, Jesus?"
"Look!" replied the Saviour. "I can see your house from here!"

[persiangurl]

It's long past time to recognize the fact that god did not invent man; MAN INVENTED gOD! In fact man has invented lots of gods over the centuries. Even if there were a god-- and there isn't-- what are the chances that the god that you happen to currently worship is the right god?


Mankind has long had a built-in need to worship at the altar of a non-existent higher being. It is part of man's nature; part of his survival instinct. Observe that the promise of a blissful afterlife is almost always part of the deal when worshiping one of these many fictional supreme beings.


If religion itself is a delusion, then organized religion is a perfect example of mass hysteria. Not to mention a scam of epic proportions. The first and only clue necessary to crack this case wide open should be this: How can it be that the all mighty God, creator of heaven and earth, all knowing all seeing and all powerful entity that he is, IS ALWAYS SHORT ON CASH?!?!?!?!?! What is it that allows such a huge con game to continue? The fact that the only people who have discovered the truth are dead people. By the time they are in a position to collect on the benefits promised by God's salesman, it is too late for them to demand a refund.

---Ray


Interesting how the atheist speaks in third person when referring to "mankind" as if he himself were god



:rolleyes:

[Raymond Pist]

Dear believer;
As a representative of God, Please fill out this questionnaire on his behalf.


1. Why didn’t you go a little easier on Adam & Eve? We understand that the doctrine against cruel and unusual punishment was written by man a few years too late to save the Eden residents, but isn’t it just common sense to cut folks a little slack on a first offense?
2. Why didn’t you give your son a “holy pardon” rather than watch him die on the cross? Are you just a bad parent, or what?
3. Why didn’t you mention the dinosaurs? …the earth revolving around the sun? …the earth being round? Surely you must have known these things before Darwin, Galileo, and Columbus, and letting these heathens “out-scoop” you cost you some serious credibility.
4. After flooding the earth, you promise never to do it again. Does that mean you made a mistake? Are you incompetent, God?
5. Why did Hitler come to power?
6. Why do babies die of AIDS?
7. Are you a moron, or what?
8. Why do priests rape little boys? (And why aren’t they at least excommunicated?)
9. Why does the pope need bulletproof glass? Won’t YOU protect him?
10. Why do parishioners rebuild churches? By allowing them to burn or be destroyed by other natural disasters (i.e. Acts of YOU) Aren’t you sending a clear signal that you don’t like that church?
11. Why haven’t I gotten a shock from my keyboard for typing such blasphemous questions? YEEEEEAAAAAUUWWWWCHH! (ok, that was just a coincidence.)
12. Man has a long history of creating god’s to give themselves immortality and answers to things they do not under stand. Why should any rational person believe that YOU are in fact the first god in the history of gods who CREATED man instead of being mans creation.
13. Why no more miracles since we’ve had the technology to verify them. Parting the Red Sea would be pretty convincing, but if you wanted to be a bit more hip, how about printing the words “remember the sabbath and keep it holy” on every computer screen in the world all day every Sunday.
14. Finally, God, since you obviously don’t exist, is it finally OK for the christians in the world to free themselves from your service and put their energy into something productive?
15. And one last thing: Now that I’ve proven to you that you don’t exist, is it OK if we don’t have any more “holy wars”?


No rights reserved. May be reprinted and re-circulated without the express written consent of the author.

[somedude]

Raymond, boro dæstato beshur!

[Raymond Pist]

Interesting how the atheist speaks in third person when referring to "mankind" as if he himself were god



:rolleyes:

No, I was speaking as me. I even signed it at the bottom. How could it have been worded any differently?
---Ray

[Raymond Pist]

Raymond, boro dæstato beshur!

And a happy Boro daestato beshur to you, too sir!

--Ray

[somedude]

And a happy Boro daestato beshur to you, too sir!

--Ray
Washing my hands only makes me happy if I've been handling nasty crap! :D

[gal4]

"Merry Chirstmas, Everyone!!"


Eat me.

[kinkyone]

Religion may not be evil itself.....but it surely is the most powerful weapon in the hands of evil men......the osamas and leshkar-e-taibas of this world use it daily to recruit more human bombs....politicians use it everyday to gather votes ( atleast here in india they do ....i fucking hate politicians)....various priests and pandits(hindu priests) and maulanas( muslim priests) use it everyday to fill their coffers, and most never use those funds for the reason they are collected-charity. Every religion in the world is building costly buildings on prime real estate, yet not only mere mortals but entire administrations are not able to do anything about it, and yet millions sleep homeless and foodless everyday.
As you may have judged by now....i am not perticularly religious, i believe there's a god somewhere(part of my upbringing maybe-but now it's deepseated), but as to what it really is and what is his role, i am not sure. How can a power that's supposed to control everything, allows so many atrocities on a wholesale rate?....daily??
If it is to judge our preservence or our faith, is'int it stretching it a little too much? I mean being poor may be a test of character, but being so poor as not to be able to save your dying parents? all the while when not only good samaritans are using the luxuries of this world(which would be bad enough from the point of view of the poor soul who faces such a position), but even the bad one's seem to be affording pretty easily their boozing and whoreing and gambling...

...makes you wonder about what's good and what's evil .....

i think i have gone off-topic and lost my way.....
:D and also my :D marbles :D

anyone who read this blah blah blah ......sorry to bore ya....

[sofia]

Miss Cake?

Yes?

Miss Angel Cake?

Yes?

Here I have a warrant for your arrest.

Oh, really?

Yes, on the day, hum, hum, hum, you defrauded a certain gentlemen by giving him a incompetent BJ. And I have the pictures to prove it.

But, sir, I am a nun.

You have a license?

Yes, here it is, what, what are you doing.

Now, open wide, there.

MMMGRRGHGHHGGGGHHH!!

Now, we are going to take you to the inquistory board and have you tried.
I love interrogating little sluts like you.
Now,let's move on.

Oh, yeah, one more.

http://www.carpsplace.com/spire/Gospel%20Blimp.pdf

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.

[Grm]

Well Ray, in this I agree with you, accept in one way. Many millions of people around the world, honestly believe in a god and derive great comfort from this faith. I do think that many of them are manipulated by sometimes corrupt and power hungry individuals. Nevertheless, even though I myself am an atheist, I respect those who wish to believe in an omniscient originator and ruler of the universe.
humanist
Grm

[sofia]

More and more and more

http://corporatejesus.blogspot.com/

and more

http://216.194.78.247/godtm/index.htm

"You believe, because you have seen, more blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."

"Oh, Lord, I believe, help thou, my unbelief!!"

.......and one more delerious additions. heh heh heheh

Do it Gently (http://funcop.net/fuck-her-gently.swf)

[sofia]

Ok, folks, this is getting to be boring, so I will kill it once and for all.

Yeah, me, and you all are total fucking depraved!!

Yeah, news to you? Yeah, good.

Summary of the doctrine

The doctrine of total inability teaches that people are by nature not inclined to love God with their whole heart, mind, or strength, as he requires, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests over those of their neighbor and to reject the rule of God. Even religion and philanthropy are destructive to the extent that these originate from a human imagination, passions, and will.

Total depravity does not mean, however, that people are as bad as possible. Rather, it means that even the good which a person may intend is faulty in its premise, false in its motive, and weak in its implementation; and there is no mere refinement of natural capacities that can correct this condition. Although total depravity is easily confused with philosophical cynicism, the doctrine teaches optimism concerning God's love for what he has made and God's ability to accomplish the ultimate good that he intends for his creation. In particular, in the process of salvation, it is argued that God overcomes man's inability with his divine grace and enables men and women to choose to follow him, though the precise means of this overcoming varies between the theological systems.
[edit]

Biblical support for the doctrine

A number of passages are put forth to support the doctrine, including (quotations are from the ESV except where noted):
Genesis 6:5: "The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Jeremiah 13:23 (NIV): "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
John 6:44a: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."
Romans 3:10-11: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."
Romans 8:7-9: "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."
Ephesians 2:3b: "[We] were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind."
1 Corinthians 2:14: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
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Objections to the doctrine
Part of a series on
Arminianism

Jacobus Arminius

Background
Protestantism
Reformation
Calvinist-Arminian Debate

People
Jacobus Arminius
Hugo Grotius
The Remonstrants
John Wesley


Doctrine
Total depravity
Prevenient grace
Substitutionary atonement
Unlimited atonement
Conditional election

Conditional preservation
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There are many Christian groups that disagree with this interpretation of the Bible and of Augustine.

Writing against the monk Pelagius, who argued that man's nature was unaffected by the Fall and that he was free to follow after God apart from divine intervention, Augustine developed the doctrine of original sin and, Protestants contend, the doctrine of total inability. Augustine's views prevailed in the controversy, and Pelagius' teaching was condemned as heretical at the Council of Ephesus (431) and again in the moderated form known as semi-Pelagianism at the second Council of Orange (529). Augustine's idea of "original" (or inherited) guilt was not shared by all of his contemporaries in the Greek-speaking part of the church and is still not shared in Eastern Orthodoxy. Also, some modern day Protestants who generally accept the teaching of the early ecumenical councils (for instance, followers of Charles Finney) nevertheless align themselves more with Pelagius than with Augustine regarding man's fallen nature.

Catholicism registers a complaint against the Protestant interpretation of Augustine and judgements of the Council of Orange4, and they claim that they alone have been faithful to the principles taught by Augustine against the Pelagians and Semipelagians, though they freely admit to some "gradual mitigation"5 of the force of his teaching. Their doctrine, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is that "By our first parents' sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free."6 At the Council of Trent they condemn "any one [who] saith, that, since Adam's sin, the free will of man is lost and extinguished; or, that it is a thing with only a name."7 Thus, in the Catholic view, man is not totally unable to follow God apart from divine influence. The Jansenist movement within Catholicism held a very similar interpretation of Augustine compared to the Protestants, and the Jansenist view man's inability, the necessity and efficacy of divine grace, and election was quite close to that of Calvinism but was condemned as heretical by the Church.

The doctrine of total depravity was affirmed by the Five articles of Remonstrance and by Jacobus Arminius himself, and John Wesley, who strongly identified with Arminius through publication of his periodical The Arminian, also advocated a strong doctrine of inability.8 The term Arminianism has also come to include some who hold the Semipelagian doctrine of limited depravity, which allows for an "island of righteousness" in human hearts that is uncorrupted by sin and able to accept God's offer of salvation without a special dispensation of grace.[citation needed] Although Arminius and Wesley both vehemently rejected this view, it has sometimes inaccurately been lumped together with theirs (particularly by Calvinists) because of other similarities in their respective systems such as conditional election, unlimited atonement, and Prevenient grace.

Some Protestants oppose the doctrine because they believe it implicitly rejects either God's love or omnipotence. That is, it is posited that if God is loving and omnipotent, then either he would not have allowed mankind to become totally corrupt or he would have immediately restored humanity to its original state. Thus, the argument goes, if the doctrine of total inability is correct, God must either be not loving or not omnipotent. Advocates of total depravity offer a variety of responses to this line of argumentation. Wesleyans suggest that God endowed man with the free will that allowed humanity to become depraved and he also provided a means of escape from the depravity. Calvinists note that the argument assumes that either God's love is necessarily incompatible with corruption or that God is constrained to follow the path that some men see as best, whereas they believe God's plans are not fully known to man and God's reasons are his own and not for man to question (compare Romans 9:18-24; Job 38:1-42:6). Some particularly dislike the Calvinist response because it leaves the matter of God's motives and means largely unresolved, but the Calvinist sees it merely as following Calvin's famous dictum that "whenever the Lord shuts his sacred mouth, [the student of the Bible] also desists from inquiry."

So now, I can shoot myself and die happy.

[somedude]

God is dead, and I killed him!-Book of somedude, Chapter 12 Verse 11 :D

[kinkyone]

God is dead, and I killed him!-Book of somedude, Chapter 12 Verse 11 :D
:D incorrect statement :D i think it requirs admin level clearence :D